VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Gregory Best · Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: VO fees for video games

I heard a story this morning on NPR while I was driving and didn't get all the details. They were saying game makers pay between $200,000 and $450,000 for music for a game these days. They were interviewing a composer who scores video games. I am not sure if that was just for the score or final produced music tracks. Why so disproportionate to the voice talent fees?
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Lee Gordon · Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject:

Because it takes real talent to write and play music. Anyone can read words off a page. Gasp

(Ducking and heading for cover. I'm joking! )
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Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

I compose and record music for some of my clients and I come from a production/post background. The full time in-house composer in our audio post department was easily the hardest working guy in the building, although people thought he was just playing around...wrong: he was an architect of sound. I composed lighter fare for pro-bono charity pieces and that was so much harder than doing the VO.

This past summer I composed and recorded a :60 piece which I cut into stingers and shorter alternates. I also did the voiceovers for the project. The 10 mins of VO took part of a day. The composing and recording took all week (and I was appropriately compensated).

VO isn't just "talking into a mic", but pro composing/recording is way more than sitting down and playing some music.

For videogames, I think VO talent should be paid better if they're really good and driving the content. That's not always the case. However, for videogames music is crucial and should be rewarded at an extremely high level. I know this isn't a popular opinion from a VO talent but it's my honest opinion as somebody with all three perspectives of playing, recording music for, and voicing games.

I try to be a gung-ho Voice Overist defender, but not in this case.

Everything's subjective...for a national spot the VO is often way more important then the music (and sometimes it's not, surprisingly). Videogames are a different animal.

I'm not saying that VO talent should not be paid more...I am saying that composers should be paid a boatload.
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Eddie Eagle · M&M Joined: 23 Apr 2008 Posts: 2393

Lance is on the mark. Videogame compositions are on par with movie music.

ccpetersen · Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject:

Lance, I'm married to a soundtrack composer/producer and I can attest to the amount of skull sweat and just plain hard work goes into the sound design on projects. thankfully much of it is digital now -- back when it was all on tape... whew! I remember many a tape machine hassle back in the day.
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Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject:

Don't forget the orchestra. Good music in games is not synthesized. They often need to rent an orchestra to perform the music.
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ccpetersen · Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:23 am Post subject:

Yes, the orchestra (and orchestrations and rehearsals, etc.) adds a level of complexity. Actually, we've done some music for games on synth -- that takes a lot of work, too. It's not just "push a button and get an orchestra"... and, as TH likes to point out, he's a trained (formerly union, long story) musician, too... not just a monkey with a keyboard. Four years of music school in college, umpteen years of band and orchestra from fourth grade on... musicality is important and the "air guitar" and "air synth" folks don't last long if they don't have the musicality. It's talent.. which we all bring to the table in our productions. I frequently marvel at how he manages to come up with melodies and complex chord structures, etc. even as he wonders how I manage to pull good words out of the ether or voice a complex topic.
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mcm · Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:58 am Post subject:

Gregory Best · Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:13 am Post subject:

I am still of the opinion that the voice talent in many projects, not just games, are an after thought with disproportionate pay. Yes the music people may be entiled to more pay comensurate with the amount and complexity of their work, but aren't we entiled to the same consideration? I think our lower pay expectation comes from the fact that many feel they may be competing with the secretary to the producer for client who has a "nice voice" but no talent.

Radio was that way with the guy waiting in the wings willing to work cheaply or for free.

(edited for typos)
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Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

I agree Greg, but go to audioatrocities.com!

Good talent deserves to be paid more, but in a lot of games they really don't care about the acting or the script.
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Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:32 pm Post subject:

I've certainly made my opinion known about this. Yes, video game talent should be paid more, especially as voice work becomes more important to driving the story.

But voice talent also need to realize that unlike commercials, the voice doesn't sell the product. It's an ensemble act, and voice talent are, frankly, not the last ones to bow at the curtain call.
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ccpetersen · Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject:

Tries to imagine a video game that needs voices, but doesn't have them. If you take away the voices, you have some mindless playing to do, but the human element is then gone.
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JBarrett · Posted: Sat May 30, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject:

To look at Jeff's point from a different angle, consider this: If you were to ask game players what they like most about their favorite games, does anyone honestly feel that the top answer would be "the voices"?

While taking away the voices does reduce the fun of a game, the same could be said for just about any other component of the game. Take away the music and it's not as engaging. Take away all color and texture and the visuals turn into a pile of monochromatic meh. Take away the game's unique design and it doesn't stand out from the crowd. As Jeff said, it's an ensemble act. Take away any single component, and the product becomes less appealing.

To put a scriptural spin on it, can the voices say to the character design, "I have no need of thee"? Or is it more accurate to say that it's a situation where "they are many members, yet but one body"? Smile

With games (and animated films, and many other things), harmony and excellence across all components is what should reign supreme in producers' minds. However, from the comments made here and elsewhere, it sounds like the real travesty is that producers appear to seek excellence in some areas and not in others, with voice acting often falling in the latter group. Game producers don't understand that well-scripted, well-performed voices -- meaning quality talent paid appropriately -- can contribute positively to the overall harmony of a game. This increases the game's overall appeal, which (hopefully) encourages game players to tell their friends, which (hopefully) leads to increased sales. By not seeking for harmony, and instead saying (through the checks they write) that some parts of a game are not as important, producers are essentially shooting themselves in the financial foot, and yet they somehow don't know that they're bleeding.

As with other areas of voiceover, perhaps those of us in that line of work would make more headway in our pleas for increased fees if we took a "here's how the quality work that we produce can help you create a better product" approach. Instruct them a little (gently) in matters of harmony, and show how a push toward harmony could ultimately boost their bottom line.
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ccpetersen · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:32 am Post subject:

Oh, I agree with you on the harmonious whole bit for games. Some games I've played could have used less music or more sound effects or better voices -- it's always something. But, for games where the human voice is necessary to convey some of the essence, it would be nice to have the respect accorded to the VO doing the work and not have it tossed in as an afterthought.

I forget which game it was I was playing at a friend's place a few years ago -- some kill-em-up game, and the voices were SO bad. I mean, imagine a third-grader being forced to read in front of the class... THAT bad. For me, it was an instant turnoff.

On the other hand, I like to play URU once in a while, and that game is so damned subtle in its sound design... it's an environment. The voices are few and far between, but they are good when they do show up.
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Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: