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Lizden · Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: Pre-Amp for my new TLM103?

OK...dang...I'm on a shopping spree....
ISDN codec....ISDN lines....TLM103...

And then.....

I realized that I probably need a better pre-amp for my new fancy-shmancy mic? Yes? No? Maybe?

OK right now I have everything going through my Alesis MultiMix8 USB mixer into my PC...I need the mixer because I also have my JK Audio hybrid connected to that for Phone patch sessions.

I also have a PreSonus Firebox that is not being used at the moment (I used it before I got my mixer)....should that be put back into play somehow?

PLEASE keep in mind that I just spend $$$$ for my other toys, so...

BUT....since I want to get good sound out of my 103, butI know nothing about pre's any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks! You guys all rock! Laugh

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Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Avalon 737

Bill Campbell · DC Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 621

How quiet is your recording space?

The DBX 286A is a surprisingly good pre/channel strip for $210.

It has a High Pass filter which you should use (gets the rumble out of your signal) and an excellent expander (which softly/silently mutes the background noise when you're pausing).

When you do an ISDN session, there's no processing/expanding through your mixer alone. So, the other end of the ISDN gets all the noise, warts and all.

I worked with Imaginator (Rowell) with a 286A specifically to cut out some noise on his ISDN sessions. He seems to like it. Maybe he'll chime in.

If noise isn't an issue, maybe what you have now is fine. Production houses like clean audio. If you want a great pre for a somewhat modest price,
get the Grace M101. It's very fast and detailed, exactly what you want for
clean, punchy voice-over.
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Lizden · Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject:

Hey Bill!

My recording space is very quiet (several of my clients & studios have actually made a point of complimenting me on that fact! Smile

) so if that's the only reason to get a pre, then frankly, right now, that's not an issue. ...which would be fine by me, I just wasn't sure whether getting this great mic would have been a wasted going through what I have now.
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Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

I should've qualified my 737 recommendation with the suggestion that you look for one on ebay----would probably be in the $1200 range (used)

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

However, how is your room acoustically? It's quiet, but does it need bass traps, panels on the ceiling, etc? Spend money perhaps on that and a dbx286a instead of preamps.

If you want to spend more on preamps anyhow, the John Hardy M1 is a great match with the TLM103.

I wouldn't pair the transformer less mic 103 with the very clean, almost sterile Grace.
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georgethetech · Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject:

Bill makes a good recommendation for the Grace. The 286a is a fine value, too. This is a loaded question, though. If clients are happy, why waste the money? But a German mic into a cheap Chinese mixer, it just seems sacrilege!

If you want to post a recording with your current setup for us to evaluate, that will help.

I can say that using the USB interface built into the Mixer will cause you challenges when a client asks to hear playback through the phone patch. There is no way to route the return from USB into an Aux Send on that thing.
That'd be the reason to continue using your Firebox. Route the output into a stereo channel, and pipe it to the Aux send that feeds the JK. Keep that fader down when you are recording to avoid a feedback loop.
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Lizden · Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject:

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

How about this...

Get a decent mixer like a Soundcraft or A&H with good preamps built in (or maybe a Mackie VLZ3) and then get an Echo Audio Fire 2 or 4 which has much better converters and sound than the Firebox (I've owned both, it's like night and day).
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Lizden · Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject:

Gear tends to multiply like rabbits!
You get one...then two...then 10!!!!!

Shocked

OK....let's take it slow...I'll take a look at all your suggestions and hopefully my head won't explode!...I know just enough to know what I don't know!
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Bill Campbell · DC Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 621

"Not trying to threadjack but Bill, do you always use the High Pass Filter?
If they ask for unprocessed audio, does the High Pass Filter count? "

Most voices have little sonic content below 80hz, especially female voices. Enabling the HPF will ususally lower your noise floor by about 5db.

Liz, if your set-up sounds good - it is good! Expensive preamps don't usually make you go WOW. They're subtle improvements, IMHO.
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ricevoice · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:34 am Post subject:

I have a dbx286a and love it (it has a terrificly quiet noise gate), both on my Senn416 and my Rode NTK... BUT when I paired it with a TLM-103 I really didn't care for the way it sounded and I returned the TLM-103. I know many people in the past, including Lance I believe, have said you need the right pre to make that mic shine... IMO the dbx286a is not it and may actually be a step backwards for your audio chain.
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Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Lizden · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:41 am Post subject:

OK...next stupid question....
If I get a new pre...does that mean that's ALL I have?
In other words, do I no longer use the mixer as a way to connect to my computer?

Like I said...I know nothing about this aspect of audio chains!

Thanks so much for ALL your input so far!
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Liz de Nesnera O.A.V. ~ Livin' The VO Dream!
English/French Bilingual VO w/ ISDN
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Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

There are no stupid questions, just dumb answers...so here's my stab at a dumb response. Smile

Think of your sound as going through five steps in order to make a digital recording.

1.) Your voice (which is affected by both you and your room acoustics)
2.) Your microphone (cables and mic stand can come into play here)
3.) Your preamp (HPF, transformers, quality and tone come into play here)
4.) Your conversion from analog to digital
5.) Your computer and software

The Multimix does 3 then 4. The dbx and other preamps do 3. The Firebox does 3 and 4 but not very well with either. Echo Audio, the Multimix and other products do 3 and 4 well but don't do 3 as well as a stand alone preamp.

Note that what ever preamp you use needs to bypass the mic preamps of the box you use for 4...otherwise you're just getting the sound of 4 largely.

The signal path I use is for cleanest input and output:

Mic to
Preamp to
Line In Echo AudioFire 2
Firewire to Computer

then I take the outputs of the Audio Fire to a small mixer, and use that to feed my speakers, headphones, and JK Audio phone patch. Latency can be an issue with some computers - I default to External monitoring on Adobe Audition 3 so there's no "echo" delay.

I get a direct line to the computer, and then let all the other muckity muck happen post computer...including playback feeds. Heck, sometimes I take Aux 2 from my mixer and feed that back to my Echo AudioFire 2 input2 and record my client's phone input on a separate channel to help with my editing.
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