VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Tom Test]

Hey there,

I have a Summit 2BA-221 tube/solid-state hybrid preamp that I wish to upgrade the tubes on. I’ve been using a new TungSol tube, but just got in two NOS tubes from the dealer Bowie, whom I’ve been very pleased with in the past. The two 60s/70s NOS tubes are a Brimar and a Mullard.

The file below has me reading a short script through all three tubes on the Summit, and for fun I also have one read through my new Golden Age Pre-73 (with “TT mod”), set to be as clean and uncolored as possible. My mic is the Studio Projects CS5, and I’m using Mogami Gold cables and a trusty Echo Mia sound card. I’ve done no processing other than normalizing to -3db, and I’ve used a high pass filter. I recorded these in my sound booth, which is very small but has two 3 1/2 ft bookshelves in it along with Auralex foam and and bass traps.

Please give this a listen and tell me what you think of all four files. I’ve got my two favorites, but I’d like to hear other opinions. I’ll reveal which clip is which tube/preamp in a few days.

http://www.box.net/shared/mgoaqt375a

(EDIT: this new file hopefully will show more differences than the one above, so please download this one instead: http://www.box.net/shared/t5aslps2h5 )
_________________
Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Tom Test]

I just noticed something interesting and enlightening...

When I listen to these clips through my nice Event Project Studio 6 monitors, I can hear a big difference. But when I downloaded this file on another computer and listened through that computer's Klipsch 2.0 speakers - pretty good quality desktop speakers - all four clips sounded pretty much the same!

Which brings me to a bit of a digression: how do you think our auditions are actually listened to? Through a nice pair of expensive monitors, or through crappy computer/laptop/iPhone speakers? I'm guessing that the latter option is more often the case than the former.

Hmmmmm.....
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Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Bish]

I downloaded and listened when you posted, and I have to admit after my initial listen I thought this may be an early/late April fool's joke I was reluctant to post because I thought I'd be admitting to having undiscerning ears! I could hardly separate them at all... certainly not enough to have a quantitative opinion about the merits of each.

My chain...
wav file opened in Sound Studio 3,
line-out of the Mac into a Mackie 1202VLZ3,
M-Audio BX5a monitors.

Sure, not an audiophile set-up, but not too shabby.
As you say, how are these going to be appraised anyway?
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[kgenus]

Tom Test, I don't know what you expect to hear, but to me, the differences are not great enough to warrant any lengthy discussion, as a small amount of EQ could create the same conditional differences in each of the four files - that and any of these setups could be used for auditions and bookings.
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Genus

[Tom Test]

Thanks Kevin, that is helpful to hear. It surprises me that the sound through a tube pre can be so similar to a solid-state one. Maybe the CS5 isn't as affected by the choice of pre as many other mics can be (like the TLM-103 I used to have before I got the CS5).
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Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[SkinnyJohnny]

Hi Tom,
They all sound really really close on this end. To me, cut 2 sounded the best.
All sounded good though!

Oh yeah, here's my listening chain...

Lynx L22 soundcard > Focal CMS 50 Monitors
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John Weeks Voice Overs
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[Mike Sommer]

I'm hearing very subtle differences. There is a difference between 1 and 2; 2 being a little louder, with more air in the upper frequencies. 3 and 4 are about the same as 2 - there are some differences throughout but nothing to write home about.

This is something I've only touched a little bit on a post sometime back.
Our brian is wired in a way that outside influences "suggestions" "prompts" effect the way we listen to things. If I ask you to listen for a frequency shift or hiss or any thing; you will listen differently. It's like at night and you think you hear something. Suddenly your focused on that sound, all other background noise is all but washed away- your attention is on that sound.

Another example: Your listening to a song you've heard all your life, and one day you hear something in that song you're never heard before. If you listen to that song again you will listen for that one instance, that one thing that caught your attention. Sometimes you'll hear it sometimes you wont. This is not an illusion it's not a trick- it's how our brain works.

So yeah, you probably did hear differences; because you wanted to hear them. And moving to a different system brought you some clarity.

Also you're listening environments could be coloring your sound too.
~~~
First don't normalize.
Are your letting the tubes warm up for 20 minutes or so?

Where are you running the tube output setting? If you want to find out what the tube sounds like you want it to clip a little bit.

Same with the GAP. if you want to show off the mic run it clean, but it's not about the mic here it's about the preamp, let it distort, that's what gives it interest and depth.

[Tom Test]

Mike, I was hoping you'd chime in!

FYI, yes, each tube has been warmed up for at least 30 minutes if not an hour or two. Actually, I also recorded the tube clips at the same time yesterday with the tube blend pushed higher (at 3 pm on the Summit, vs 11 am as on the first file) and now I just made a new file where I have cranked in the tubes to 3 pm. So I have a new file here with those three tube clips, plus the GAP pushed to be more colored. They are all still normalized to -3 db though, in my attempt to equalize the volume.

Here's the link to the new file: http://www.box.net/shared/t5aslps2h5

And Mike, do either (or both) these samples meet standards for "broadcast quality?"
_________________
Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Rob Ellis]

Hey Tom,

I replaced my Avalon stock tubes with JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes and noticed a definite improvement. Got em from Tube Depot.

[Mike Sommer]

There ya go!
Now there are distinct differences.

They are all very nice and each has its own little something something.

1) Sounds very much like #1 from the first file. I like this very pleasant. Full and balanced.
2) I like this one the best, it sets you more up front. It sounds full and dynamic- nice wetness to it.
3) It's not my favorite, but I do like it. This could be good for something really gritty. I also perceive a sense of hollowness from this sample. This may not need to be driven as much I would pull it back.
4) This sounds almost identical to #1 I like it just a much and for the same reasons.


I think you and your room sound fine. And the constancy of your reads are impressive.
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Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

[Jeffrey Kafer]

Listened through Sennheiser HD280 Pro headphones

I like 1 and 3 the best.

2 seems a bit sibilant.

4 Seemed boxy.
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com

[chuckweis]

Definite differences on this end. At first listen, one sounded good, but then two came alive with more tonal qualities...really like it. They all sound good, and I agree that 1 and 4 are pretty similar. I added a little bump on the low end of 2, and I think it's my favorite with that little bit of EQ.

[Tom Test]

Okay, drum roll please..... (don't look below if you haven't listened to the file yet!)













I intentionally did not identify the clips up front to try avoiding any bias. Here's the lineup:

1. Summit - Brimar NOS tube
2. Summit - Mullard NOS tube
3. Summit - Golden Age Pre-73 with "TT mod"
4. Summit - new production TungSol tube

Thanks to all for taking the time to share your thoughts! I'm still “mulling” (pun intended) a bit, but will probably keep the Mullard tube and send the Brimar back. I like the Brimar, but it sounds quite similar to the TungSol I already own. And the GAP-73 is a keeper for sure.
_________________
Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Jeffrey Kafer]

After reading this thread, I went over to tube depot. I noticed they have Mullards very inexpensively, labelled as "New Production". Apparently, they're making new tubes? Has anyone compared these cheap New Productions to the old (and expensive) Mullards?

Example: http://thevo.biz/f
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com

[Mike Sommer]

They are not the same as NOS. They say it's made by the same equipment, but it's not the same material.
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.