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johnbailey
Contributor II
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 60
Location: Detroit, MI
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 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| asnively wrote: | | Gret topic. I've been womdering about normalization as well. Does one do the normalization before or after compression, etc.? I usually apply on of my favorite Izotope Ozone 3 (for Adobe Audition) presets, then norm,alize to 100%. Am I lame? |
That sounds reasonable, as the compression would bring the gain down, and normalization should bring it up to optimal level. However, I have heard that one should never run digital audio at 0 db, as it could still clip at that level. I always normalize mine to -1 db, which is about 89%.
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asnively
Triple G
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 3204
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Drew wrote: | | I can always toy with amplitude, but I'll never be "normal". |
Whenever I use the "normalize" function (which is, about 20 times a day lately) I think "If only it were that easy..."
| Quote: | | Yo, Amy, did you actually pony up the $249 and change for that Ozone 3 plug-in? |
I did something kinda cool, Drew! I downloaded the trial, and loved it. Then I found someone selling Ozone on eBay. Then I confirmed that it was legit, and that it was version 3. Then I sniped the auction for about $175 (I can't remember for sure-- ask me when I'm doing next year's taxes.)
| Quote: | | I tried the ten day freebie trial and thought it was pretty good, but not for that price. |
Don't tell anyone I told you this: But after the trial, your files will be watermarked with a small beep. You may find (as I did) that if you're doing :30's and :60's, you can squeeze what you have to say in-between the beeps. (Audio books? You're SOL.)
That is until you raise the dough to go legit, of course. I'm sure we all agree that computer software producers deserved to get paid!
| Deirdre wrote: | | asnively wrote: | | Am I lame? |
Oh, my God-- Amy.
I am so glad my fried egg sandwich did not come through my nose when I read that. |
I'm glad too! That sounds so uncomfortable! Yikes!
| johnbailey wrote: |
That sounds reasonable, as the compression would bring the gain down, and normalization should bring it up to optimal level. However, I have heard that one should never run digital audio at 0 db, as it could still clip at that level. I always normalize mine to -1 db, which is about 89%. |
That's interesting, John. I didn't know that! My files are getting loaded into radio automation and are going straight out onto the air... I do spot checks, and I don't see any clipping at 100% normalization. Are there other hidden dangers?
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Last edited by asnively on Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: |
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The dangers are when mixing files in the digital realm when pushing 100%.
Give yourself "digital headroom" to protect against clipping and other digital hash. In an analog realm, you might easily push 100% or more, but in the digital realm - 95% can bring in digital noise especially if your playback equipment is not "tweaked" properly (and often). When dealing with a small frequecny range such as those in radio, television, or even the very small range of a telephone, some digital 'noise' will be imperceptable. In a studio environment, on a CD, or in High Definition audio such as a DVD -this same hash could make the audio unusable. (Personally, I set my averages to 85% or -1.3 db). The 'digital hash' is noticable esepcailly when the audio is amplified for playback.
This is why you use 'normalize' - it takes the file or section of a file, finds the highest peak and then attempts to match the nearby peaks with the audible 'loudness' of the highest peak in the selected file or section without going above the arbitrary "loudness' or db level requested.
Compression tries to find the average of the peaks and squish the high and low peaks to the average, thus making the audio perceptibly louder for the same waveform peak or db level., When using more compression it will make the high peaks closer to the low peaks... too much compression brings the levels to a mushy - squished sound you do not want. It becomes audibly un-listenable at some point.
Limiting sets an arbitrary level and will not let any peak go above that level.
Amplitude or 'gain' makes everything selected louder or less loud as you desire. (this does not have any preset 'limit' and may easily peak above 100% and still not be as loud as other parts of the file.
Toodles
Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com |
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asnively
Triple G
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 3204
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Thank you sooooo much, Frank! If someone were to hold a basic, jargon-free Adobe Audition for VO Folks workshop, they'd make a fortune! If they did it here in L.A., I'd be the first to sign up!
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Last edited by asnively on Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13016
Location: East Jesus, Maine
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | This is why you use 'normalize' - it takes the file or section of a file, finds the highest peak and then attempts to match the nearby peaks with the audible 'loudness' of the highest peak in the selected file or section without going above the arbitrary "loudness' or db level requested.
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Frankie-Goes-To-Hollywood--
Does Normalize alter the wave form's amplitude relative to its peaks?
Compression stretches the lows and squashes the highs. The profile of the waveform is changed.
Gain makes the whole wave form bigger or smaller, but doesn't change its relative shape.
What does Normalize do to the waveform?
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anthonyVO
14th Avenue
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1470
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:41 am Post subject: |
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The way Frank explained normalization he might have made it sound as if it changes the overall shape or dynamics - it doesn't at all.
It is no different than gain, with the exception that it takes the highest peak and brings it up to the level requested - while the other peaks are brought up as well but still maintain the same dynamic relation to the highest peak. So if the highest peak is originally at -3dB and the second highest peak is at -5db, when you normalize the file to say -1.5dB, the second highest peak is will still be 2dB lower (i.e., -3.5dB).
-Anthony |
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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13016
Location: East Jesus, Maine
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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All rightie.
Hey, A-Men-- do you think the Gain control in Pro Tools is easier to use than the Normalize control?
Just curious.
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anthonyVO
14th Avenue
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1470
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: |
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I remember using Normalize maybe a handful of times in the past year - never had a big need for it - I pretty much know where I want to be in terms of dB for any given region so I primarily use gain. Don't know if it's "easier" but it IS very easy to use as long as you're aware of headroom.
Alot of new audio-heads are obsessed with loudness I guess because that's the easiest thing to "hear" for inexperienced ears - so when the "Normalization" option comes about, everyone goes crazy and wants to use it. But when you really understand what you're putting together in terms of production (i.e., layering, creating depth, dynamics, stereo image, cuts and boosts of frequencies, etc.), normalizing doesn't make my top ten list for producing "loudness."
-Anthony |
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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D.B.,
It is your choice... "gain" can be touchy as you only have a general idea of how much to use. "Normalize" is specific as to how much it will add or take away.
Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com |
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