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Monitor noise

 
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Foog
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Joined: 27 Oct 2013
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Location: Upper Canuckistan

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:58 am    Post subject: Monitor noise Reply with quote

After years of recording via headphones exclusively, I finally bought my first pair of studio monitors - KRK Rokit 5's. Unfortunately, I am nearly finished renovating my boothroom (TM), and I finally have a recording space so well isolated that the ever-so-quiet electric hum of the powered amp in the speakers is like an ice pick in my ear. After putting so much blood, sweat, and tears into reducing my noise floor, I am really reluctant to bump it up even if it is only by a couple of decibels.

After doing all the usual troubleshooting (unplugging everything in the chain and discovering that the noise was indeed emanating from the speakers even when everything else was unplugged and removed from the space), I decided to go out and purchase a Furman PL-8C power conditioner to see if that would help. And now here's an indication of how minor the noise really is: not only did the power conditioner do nothing to alleviate the nearly inaudible hum, the hum of the damned conditioner itself (sitting on my desktop while I tested it) actually added to the background noise.

So I am not sure what to do at this point, or whether I should do anything at all (other than return the unneeded Furman at the very least).

On the negative side, there is an added noise to my room that I can't seem to get rid of. Plus, I have noticed that when I edit a voice track using the monitors, I miss some of the more subtle clicks/pops/various-and-sundry-undesirables that I would notice and deal with when editing with the headphones.

On the positive side, this is the first pair of real speakers I have had in any room in many a year. And for those of us unable to afford a sports car, cranking up the tunes of our misspent yoot' in a nicely isolated boothroom (TM) is a great substitute manifestation of the ole' midlife crisis. (Wheee!) Plus, I'm not wasting all that time getting rid of the unnoticeably subtle squeaks/pops/sundries that 99.9% of clients are also not going to hear.

Now, I'm thinking that some of the hum noise issues will be alleviated when I finish the internal sound treatment. So far only two of 4 bass traps are up, and 2 of 4 rockboard (like OC703, but more Canuckistani) panels are up, and I have hella-many Auralex squares on order to cover any remaining bare spots. But will it be enough, or will the hum drive me mad like some sort of latter-day Tell Tale Heart? Am I a fool for forgoing the electron microscope-like resolution of my headphones, or would keeping the monitors be a great way to wean me of my penchant for editing the wind pop from every eyeblink and insect fart out of my my recordings?

What say you, cooler and wiser heads with experience in these matters? Keep the monitors or slink back and return them?

Bonus question: if I return the Furman, am I just asking for lightning to hit my house and burn everything out?
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Bill Campbell
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plug your monitors into a power strip and cut it off when recording. At least you'll know its not in your recording.
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Foog
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Campbell wrote:
Plug your monitors into a power strip and cut it off when recording. At least you'll know its not in your recording.


Thanks Bill.

I thought of this one and may well do it. The music store warned me that the on/off switch on the monitors have a built in circuit or delay or something* that keeps the speaker from popping when you turn it on, and that if I bypass that (e.g., connect it to a strip and use the strip to turn them on and off), they may pop horribly when I turn them on. But I haven't tried it yet. I vaguely recall having similar pops in my gigging days turning on my 600 watt bass amp on a power bar and it was disconcerting, but not all that unbearable or potentially damaging. How awful could it be with a, what, 50 watt monitor?

The room is stripped bare and I'm putting up some more sound treatment today. But I'm going to test this type of set up when I hook everything back up.

Meanwhile, my silly throwaway comment about the Furman and lightning is preying on me a bit. My house and wiring are ancient. Maybe I should keep it, let it live under the desk where it will be nice and quiet, and run everything through it. Might save my gear and even improve the buggy little issues that crop up every once in a while with the computer and peripherals. I'm on the fence though. It's not a fancy sine wave transformer thingie like the shiny super pro (and shiny expensive) power conditioners. It doesn't even have a UPS. So I suspect it isn't really going to do much. ...except maybe save thousands in gear from current fluctuations messing with sensitive electronics. So, yeah. On the fence.





*I'm not exactly recalling what the precise nature of the switch is, since wasn't paying enough attention while he was speaking. In my defence, I was only on my second cup of coffee for the day and he wasn't using any charts, semaphore, or catchy songs to make his point.
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Andrew Fogarasi


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ricevoice
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
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Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Campbell wrote:
Plug your monitors into a power strip and cut it off when recording. At least you'll know its not in your recording.


This.

I love my monitors when I'm mixing and editing, not so much when recording... I mounted the power strip to my desk so I can reach over and switch them off while recording. Often the best solution is the simplest.
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Foog
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ricevoice wrote:
Bill Campbell wrote:
Plug your monitors into a power strip and cut it off when recording. At least you'll know its not in your recording.


This.

I love my monitors when I'm mixing and editing, not so much when recording... I mounted the power strip to my desk so I can reach over and switch them off while recording. Often the best solution is the simplest.



How bad is the "pop" when you flip the switch, Chris? I assume it's not too awful if it is part of your regular workflow.

Also - anyone care to weigh in on the power conditioner? I remember a recent thread where something similar was the SDotD. Anyone notice any tangible improvements in sound or stability, or is it all about the peace of mind?
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Andrew Fogarasi


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ricevoice
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's noticeable but I got used to it pretty quickly.
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dwpthe3rd
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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Location: Where palm trees meet pines

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject: Thought... Reply with quote

Are you using the balanced line inputs on the KRKs? I used to have a pair of those speakers and I eliminated 'hum' by switching the monitor inputs from the -10 unbalanced to the +4 balanced, which are typically the canon type plug or TRS 1/4' plug.
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Foog
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Thought... Reply with quote

dwpthe3rd wrote:
Are you using the balanced line inputs on the KRKs? I used to have a pair of those speakers and I eliminated 'hum' by switching the monitor inputs from the -10 unbalanced to the +4 balanced, which are typically the canon type plug or TRS 1/4' plug.


Absolutely (balanced). The hum is electrical and coming from the amp inside the speaker, not line noise. I was still getting it when every device was unplugged and removed from room. Just me. An empty desk, in an empty room. One monitor. One AC cable. An on switch. And a sad look on my face.

It does give me pause, though. I was looking at some alternative monitors, under the guiding principle that a quality set-up with lower wattage may have a quieter amp hum to it. Except that a lot of the smaller monitors want you to use unbalanced inputs and I figure that way lies madness.
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dwpthe3rd
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject: Jusst might be the KRKs... Reply with quote

I had a pair of the KRK 5 Gen 2 for several years. I recall what seemed to be a 60hz hum until switching to the balanced line in and then minimal noise, at least not noticeable with my room noise floor.

Not to suggest going on a witch hunt, but some AC line filters are better than others at providing linear filtration across the entire AC bandwidth. I use a level 3 power cleaning device which seems to work well. Share your solution when you get it!
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the KRK VXT4s and though you can hear them if I get real close, the actual noise that they add is negligible. One is about 3' behind my mic and it has never been an issue. I use balanced cables.
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Foog
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went back to the music store earlier this week and decided to test every monitor they had. I got funny looks when I explained that "no, I don't want to hear any music or anything else through them", but they were accommodating once I explained my problem. I took one of each monitor into their quietest room and plugged it in (AC only, no input at all). Sure enough, the KRK's were the loudest "electronically", with an annoying hum. All the others were pretty much silent. Except for the bleddy tweeters! Almost every single one had a distracting hiss coming off the tweeters.

Almost? Yeah, almost. It seems that the overpriced German ones are quiet both electronically and tweeter-hissification-wise. Figures! So now I have a pair of Adams F5s that cost double what I was planning to spend. Who says you can't buy your way out of a problem? (don't tell my wife)
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vkuehn
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it helps you sleep any better... you didn't pay that much more than what some of us have paid for Yamaha HS5 speakers and seem to be describing a speaker that may exceed the performance of the Yamahas.
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Foog
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny you should mention those - out of the half dozen or so monitors I tested out, the Yamahas were the noisiest in terms of tweeter hiss. They might be the bee's knees for accurately reproducing sound, but the hiss was a deal breaker.

Mind you, my guilty conscience is what is keeping me from sleeping well. A more levelheaded man would have just went with the power-strip on/off when recording option and a cheaper pair of monitors.
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Ed Fisher
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting.

I too have an issue (in a very quite environment) of hearing the speakers very low level power amp hum.

(I thought it was JUST me)

My solution. Cut them off while recording.

It's kind of a PITA..but if I left them on there would be feedback..so there is nothing quite like the SCREAM of tweeters tying to burst you ear drums...to act as a friendly reminder.
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Foog
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been about a week of using the F5s and I must say... wow! And "huzzah" even! They sound lovely, and seem to pick up most of the glitches and pops I need to address. Not quite as sensitive to the unwanted sounds as my headphones are, but I'm coming to think that this is a feature, not a bug. I am spending orders of magnitude less time angsting over saliva pops and near-inaudible clicks because they are even more near-inaudible through monitors than they are through headphones. Ahhhh, the awe-inspiring power of blissful ignorance. It's downright liberating it is!

I'm going to keep the fredphones in their box all next week and see how that works for me.


(I've been leaving the monitors on when recording auditions, and turning them off when recording actual work. Seems a happy compromise so far. Plus, I keep telling myself that the KRKs were too noisy for auditioning even. I almost believe it, and anything that helps me justify hanging on to these beauties is a boon.)
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