VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

HeatherMasters

Almost a year ago, I bought the Steinberg UR12. I was just starting, and didn't want to invest too much in case this didn't "take." Now, I'm looking to upgrade, but the research is so confusing. I'm seeing Apogee Duets and Audient id22 compared to UR22-which has the same pre as my UR12. Since I am not looking for extra channels, or mix effects, I am looking to spend my money on something that is really going to boost a clean sound. I currently have to have my gain almost maxed out and the signal still isn't quite what I'd like. So, when I see units like the yamaha ag03 and the UR22 getting praised alongside ones 3-5x the price, I don't get it. What am I missing? And am I just better off sticking with the UR12 until I can afford to skip the $300-500 interfaces and go for the $500-800 range?

*I am currently considering the Audient id14, Apogee One, (or maybe even the duet, though not the ios one) and the Tascam UH-7000, but if the "upgrade" is more of a lateral move, then I'm a bit stymied...
_________________
Heather

www.heathermastersvo.com

Bish · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject:

Not to be overly-simplistic, but you need to look at the problem you are trying to solve. Most issues are not solved by cash (OK, some are). There are (professional) VOs out there happy with $300 mics, $1,000 mics and $3,500 mics... and higher. The price range on pre-amps is even wider. What mic are you using? It could be one that has a notoriously low output and you'll have the same issues with other pre-amps. Bottom line... how does it sound?
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

HeatherMasters · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject:

I've got a tlm 103 and have been really happy with it. I guess it's just hard to understand how the really inexpensive interfaces are competing with ones which are so much more expensive. This doesn't seem to jive with my other experiences in life. I can understand, "very good quality for the price range," but not, "Hey this $100 interface has the same sound quality as your $600 one" Part of me thinks, man, if I had worked and saved for a $600 interface and someone comes out with one that sounds the same for $100, I'd be angry and feel cheated. It just doesn't seem to add up to me.
_________________
Heather

www.heathermastersvo.com

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

I think generally you will find that you get what you pay for, although there are of course exceptions to that.

IME if you are relying on the converters only in your interface and using an outboard pre-amp, then you can probably get by with a lesser interface.

But if you are purchasing an interface for the pre-amps as well as the converters, your best bet if you can afford it is to go with a higher shelf interface known for quality pre-amps like an Audient, RME Babyface or Duet or one of the higher-end Focusrite interfaces.

Especially with the TLM 103, which is a good mic but one that does not shine with budget pre-amps.

Voxman · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:07 pm Post subject:

Hi there Heather

Like I said in Fridays post, I have a Violet Amethyst Standard mic which is very detailed, through an Isa One pre. I can't tell of any difference between my Apogee Duet firewire converters or my Lexicon Alpha $US49.00 converters. The Alpha is just as clean, rich etc etc etc. But your question has always been of interest to me as well.
Cheers
Peter

Rick Riley · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:30 pm Post subject:

I’m a believer in using the best component for the job at hand, so when you say you’re looking for an interface that has a good preamp, you’re actually looking for a component buried within a component. Interface and preamp are two components and when you get a one size fits all solution, you get a one size fits all result.

In my chain I use a mic to a preamp to a limiter to an interface. Each one doing the job it was designed to do. My preamp is a straight preamp. Even highly regarded pre’s like the Avalon 737, in my opinion, try to do too much. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VT737SP It’s a preamp with a limiter, compressor, equalizer and so many settings, you’re constantly fiddling with it to try to make it personalized to your voice. The problem is, you might do a track with one setting, then down the road change it to something you like better and then what happens if someone wants to update something you did previously when it was set differently. It’s a destructive set up, meaning it doesn’t really offer your voice to the track, it offers a destructive setting of your voice to the track that you can’t duplicate without that piece of equipment.

My pre is a Martech MSS/10. http://www.martinsound.com/pd_m1so.htm It offers the most natural sound of any pre I’ve ever heard and I get constant compliments about the sound of my audio chain. I also get questions during sessions as to, ‘what are you using’, and those questions come from some of the best production houses in the business. They want to know because it sounds so clean.

So if you really want to upgrade, focus on one piece of equipment at a time. If you like your mic, great. Now get a preamp that works to help that mic perform. And ultimately get an interface WITHOUT pre because you don’t want a pre running into another pre.

Hope that helps.
_________________
Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics

www.rickrileyvoice.com

HeatherMasters · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject:

So glad I came to the right place. Great advice.

Bish · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject:

There's a lot of love for the iD22... I have one Smile

The access to a path that completely bypasses the internal pre-amps is important if you feel another pre-amp may be in your future. Also, the patching capabilities and software interface are really useful. I have now managed to stop using a mixer on my input stage. Main mic connected to channel 1, other input (ISDN return) connected to channel 2 and DAW return connected via the s/pdif optical in. Lots of flexibility... and I suspect you will be happy with the internal pre-amps (very clean and uncoloured).
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

vkuehn · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:30 pm Post subject:

We all want MAXIMUM quality from our recording process. In addition to what has been posted so far, there is one other feature in digital converters to keep in mind: bit rate and bit depth. When you record do your record at 16 bit or 24 bit. Do you always record at 44100 bit rate, or do you also need (or maybe need in the future) to record at 48000, or maybe 88200 or 96000?

My observation is that when you buy the higher priced units you get flexibility in these areas. Some of the lower priced interfaces may only do 44.1 and/or 48. Is this a problem? Only if you are recording for some non-traditional customers maybe. Right or wrong, I just assume any box with multiple bit rate and bit depth will have higher quality built in.

Does V-O work ever call for these expanded formats. Probably not. But once you have the interface, you may want to use it to record a child's music recital on site or something, and then you may appreciate expanded capabilities.

sdaeley17 · Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject:

Hi, Heather!

Good luck in your search! Funnily enough, I have or have had the Steinberg UR12 (great unit, needed it for travel, can be noisy depending on the mic) Audient ID22 (sadly deceased due to a storm and leaky studio ceiling) and replaced it with the Audient ID14 (couldn`t afford to replace the 22 at the time, and honestly, I wasn`t using it for more than the pres. Had it been available in Japan when I was looking around, I would have got it instead.) You can`t go wrong with either one, and they`re the perfect match if you want a backup or to replicate your studio sound when you travel.

Interesting you had to crank the UR12 so high, I had the opposite problem, as the audient unit`s gain goes up very gradually until the last quarter of rotation. 75% is a good place to start when dialing in your settings.

This is a really interesting thread. I almost feel like today`s interfaces are becoming yesterday`s preamps. Soon you`ll see VO`s swapping out interfaces to get different sonic characteristics instead of preamps (or maybe this is all youth culture blasphemy.)

It`s really hard to tell what`s best when you see talent hooking an Avalon to an Apollo Twin, or just using the interface`s pres, or just getting by with nothing more than a decent mic and a scarlett solo. Not to mention seeing top pros like Beau Weaver and Joe Cip sending out ready to air audio with a 416 and an itrack solo. There`s a buyer for every audio, and a tool for every situation, I guess.
_________________
"There's Magic all around us; you just have to see it. And the most wonderful Magic of all, is just bein' alive." -Uncle Montork, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe

FinMac

Just noticed Sean's reply regarding the iD14 and I want to point out that there are some differences you might consider.

You can bypass the micpres in the iD22 if you want to do so. If you ever get a top end micpre that you want use, but just use the iD22 for it's great converters, that is possible.

It is NOT possible with the iD14 (Check the FAQ page on it).

Since part of your question involved bypassing the micpre and using the converters I would suggest the iD22 is a better fit for your needs.
_________________
www.scottsvoiceover.com - An American voice in Finland

"If you want to get to the top, you have to get off your bottom". (Unknown)

sdaeley17 · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:24 am Post subject:

Thanks for including that, Scott! I meant to mention that as well, but it sounded like she was already going for the ID22, and I got lost in rambling (I do that sometimes.) Smile

_________________
"There's Magic all around us; you just have to see it. And the most wonderful Magic of all, is just bein' alive." -Uncle Montork, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe

paulstefano · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:28 am Post subject:

There is SO much more to the way a certain interface behaves for one person as compared to another.

I was surprised to find out how different things can be across computer platforms (Mac vs PC) and even across different Operating systems within the same platform.

I was banging my head against the wall on Windows 10 because every interface I tried (6 bought and sold over a 2 week period, including the UR22 and ID14) had really low gain output, to the point I had the dial almost all the way up, with resulting hiss and whine.

Then I pulled out my old Macbook Pro from 2010 and voila! The same interface had a gain boost of about 20 db! I had returned/sold all the other interfaces, but I'm pretty sure the issue for me was not the interfaces, but Windows 10 or something in the drivers.

Moral of the story...troubleshoot everything else before spending more cash.
_________________
http://www.paulstefano.com

Rick Riley · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:44 am Post subject:

HeatherMasters · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject:

Sean, oh, it made me cringe to hear about your audient id22. It was a close call between the two, but the ability to bypass the pres is one of the things that made the 22 a clear winner.

Paul, I'm a Mac girl all the way, but I am interested in seeing if the new interface solves my problem. If it's not amazingly awesome, I will definitely start the search for other culprits.

This is my first order with Sweetwater, and I was really impressed with customer service. The sales guy (who is also an audio engineer) called me today, and told me to call him with any questions once my unit comes in. For someone like me, who only delves into the technical realm because I must, and therefore is very lacking in know-how, this was a real bonus.
_________________
Heather

www.heathermastersvo.com