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GHull
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 25
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 Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:23 am Post subject: 286A Update ... |
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I am sticking with what I already have ... but I did get my hands on a 286A schematic & took note of the fact that the mic pre IC chip was listed as the Analog Devices SSM-2017. The schematic also included a time-lapse listing of all revisions from 1996 to 2006 ... and there was never any reference to any sort of "revision" regarding the mic pre chip.
This is in direct opposition to what "the online pro audiophile legend" about the 286 series processors always stated -- in that a portion of its "magical sound" supposedly came from the use of a Burr-Brown IC, which most likely would bear the letters "INA" in the beginning of its model number.
I have a gray Symetrix 528 and a 1995 blue 528E -- both have the "older" SSM-2015 mic pres inside ... and the things sound fine. I have the old, original Mackie 1202-VLZ-Pro with their XDR pres ... and the thing sounds fine.
So, all you 286 Project 1, 286A, and 286S owners ... if you are ever curious, take off the top lid of your unit and see what sort of mic pre chip is doing the work for you!
In the meantime ... have a great weekend! |
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vkuehn
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Curiosity question. I don't have one of those devices so I can inventory my parts. 
Isn't there always an analog "pre" chip before you get to the circuit where analog comes in and digital comes out? Are you saying that the Burr-Brown chips can deal with analog at mic-output-level and digitize it before anything else happens? Before gain control for the channel? |
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GHull
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| vkuehn wrote: | Curiosity question. I don't have one of those devices so I can inventory my parts.
Isn't there always an analog "pre" chip before you get to the circuit where analog comes in and digital comes out? Are you saying that the Burr-Brown chips can deal with analog at mic-output-level and digitize it before anything else happens? Before gain control for the channel? |
The 286 series processors were never digital. They are analog boxes from the get-go and did not have any sort of A/D converters. The "question or issue" here is the mic pre chip itself. Part of the "legend" regarding the 286 was its Bob Orban original design ... and, supposedly, a Burr-Brown mic pre chip. But my schematic, which did come from dbx Professional, lists the Analog Devices SSM2017 ... and the "revisions" page never made reference to any sort of Burr-Brown chip being used, from 1996 to 2006. |
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vkuehn
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Thank you. I knew that Burr-Brown chips have the reputation of being the cream-of-the-crop when it comes to A/D chips, but I was not aware that Burr-Brown had this long standing reputation in the analog world.
I just never asked myself: Who is this Burr-Brown organization and how did they obtain this reputation. |
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Ed Fisher
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Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 605
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yep.
My 286a sitting here has a SSM-2017.
Easy to check...since its top is already open. 
Just as you noted.
When I purchased my original 286 it was just after it first came out. I remember emailing Bob Orban directly and he responded with the details. He was quite proud of his design.
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GHull
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| vkuehn wrote: | Thank you. I knew that Burr-Brown chips have the reputation of being the cream-of-the-crop when it comes to A/D chips, but I was not aware that Burr-Brown had this long standing reputation in the analog world.
I just never asked myself: Who is this Burr-Brown organization and how did they obtain this reputation. |
Based on my quick reading this evening ... at one point, there was a manufacturing concern known as Burr-Brown -- but since August of 2000, B-B has been a subsidiary of Texas Instruments. |
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| GHull wrote: | | vkuehn wrote: | Thank you. I knew that Burr-Brown chips have the reputation of being the cream-of-the-crop when it comes to A/D chips, but I was not aware that Burr-Brown had this long standing reputation in the analog world.
I just never asked myself: Who is this Burr-Brown organization and how did they obtain this reputation. |
Based on my quick reading this evening ... at one point, there was a manufacturing concern known as Burr-Brown -- but since August of 2000, B-B has been a subsidiary of Texas Instruments. |
Yep, and they aren't all created equal. There are higher power and lower power chipsets that MAY or may not impact quality. For example, both my iD22 and TAC interfaces have Burr-Browns, but the iD22 uses the higher power chip.
For example:
The iD22 uses PCM4220 on ADCs and PCM1798 on the DACs
The TAC uses Burr Brown PCM4202 ADCs and AKM AK4396 on the DACs.
*Note that the TAC does not use a Burr-Brown for the digital to analog conversion.
The PCM4202 is lower power than then PCM4220. In addition the Burr-Brown ADC on the TAC has a SNR (signal to noise ratio) of 118db, whereas the Burr-Brown ADC for the iD22 has a SNR of 123db.
It makes sense that ZOOM would have chosen the lower power chip for the TAC, as the interface is bus run through the Thunderbolt port. The iD22 has a wall wart and can run a higher power chip.
I'm guessing that some people's eyes have now essentially glazed over LOL
Anyway, Texas Instruments has pages for each chip with all their specs. Just google the chipset you're interested in.
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vkuehn
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DenaliDave wrote: |
I'm guessing that some people's eyes have now essentially glazed over LOL
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Glazed over? NO! I love it when people talk dirty like that.... particularly late at night. |
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agettig
Contributor IV
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 111
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Great thread on a couple of great pieces of gear. I used the 286a for a couple of years before deciding on doing any fiddling with the audio with plugins. I only recently sold it. (Right Jason?) I'm thinking of reacquiring one though, just to have it in the rack. It'll be right above the SPX90.  |
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Pam
The Thirteenth Floor
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Chicago, Il
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Anthony, if you do give in to your reacquireitis, I happen to have a 286a I'm looking to get rid of. 
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GHull
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: UPDATE |
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For those of you who have interest in electronic componentry ... and the 286A's "ongoing saga" ...
Last week, I had a very nice phone conversation with Ty Ford, who reviewed the dbx 286A for one of the trade journals when it was introduced in 1996. Yes, 20 years ago.
He looked up his original review ... and lo & behold! The mic pre chip used in the 286A was the Analog Devices SSM-2017. From what we were able to surmise, it never was a Burr-Brown, ever!
As they say in old-school traditional print journalism, "We are happy to make this correction and apologize for any confusion the dissemination of misinformation may have caused you."
Now -- for those of you who are happily using the later-edition 286S, if one of you feels intrepid enough to open up the top lid & see what dbx is NOW using as a mic pre chip, that would be a terrific end to the story. |
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Lee Gordon
A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6864
Location: West Hartford, CT
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I also have a 286a but I stopped using it because it started humming. Must have forgotten the words.
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