VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

Jason Huggins

I was thinking yesterday, what if I were to run a 416 AND a U87 at the same time for my recordings? Both mics would go to separate tracks and would have independent gain control but then I would have the option of picking in post depending on which sounded best...or maybe even combining them to one track? Would combining cause phase issues or would it combine the punchiness of the 416 with the nuance and natural character of the U87?

Do you think clients would like getting two sets of tracks so they could pick a starting point for processing? I'm sure production studios would like the option of having one or the other. It would probably make the engineer happy when you asked, "Whatcha feelin' for this read? 416 or U87?"

This question comes from my perceived need for a LDC mic for reads that need some intimacy. The 416 just doesn't seem to give me the detail that I'm looking for when I do quieter reads and ends up sounding kinda lifeless. I can tweak to bring out some of the character I'm looking for, but I feel like the 416 just isn't the right tool for the job when it comes to that type of read.

DenaliDave · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:21 am Post subject:

Interesting Idea...

I've never worked on a 416, but isn't it a hypercardiod? I suppose it won't matter if the U87 is an inch from the 416 and is in cardiod...

I just assumed that when using a 416 your mic technique would require you to put your mouth in a very small "sweet spot" and avoid most head movements in order to keep consistent sound levels and tone...?

The more I think about it...it should work. Interesting idea, more options can be an advantage! You might even discover that certain people ask for a certain track (and a certain microphone!) Laugh

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Mike Harrison · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:48 am Post subject:

Mixing the two tracks together (combining the mic signals) will DEFINITELY present phasing issues. I speak from experience, having done it many years ago without realizing what would happen. (I had to re-record the 5-minute piece.) Gasp

You MIGHT be able to do it IF you are able to reverse the phase on one of the channels when mixing them. I have never tried that, but many audio consoles provide a phase reverse switch on each channel. It's often used in broadcast situations where several people wearing lavalier mics are sitting in close proximity to each other.

Some audio applications feature a means of reversing the phase.
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Lee Gordon · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:52 am Post subject:

Trying to combine a 416 and a U87 is a bit like Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor putting a lawnmower engine on a blender. cool

If you can't get a great result with either one on its own, something is seriously wrong and mixing the two ain't going to fix it.
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Bruce · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:58 am Post subject:

The only place I regularly see two mics used is big time animation sessions. I presume this gives them a choice (as well as backup) when assembling the soundtrack.

I'm thinking most of us make a guess as to which of our mics will work best for the project at hand and just use the one, although I'll admit I have recorded parts of new projects on both of my usual mics and then listen separately to determine which is best.

And I'm sure it's mostly psychological, but there are days I swear certain mics just sound better or worse than usual.... not that I could be any different day to day.

B
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Mike Harrison · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject:

Back in the mid-80s, our ad/production agency had a pair of what I think were Neumann U-47s, which we used to leave set up. One day we discovered they didn't sound quite the same and there was some noise, too, and the only thing that was different was considerably more humidity in the air.

Sure enough; we put 'em back in their boxes with the silica gel packs, and the next day they were fine again. From that point forward, they stayed in their boxes until we needed them.
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

Jason Huggins · Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:19 pm Post subject:

Ya beat me to it! Smile

Humidity, temperature and barometric pressure (among I'm sure a host of other things) make a big difference in how we hear. I'm cross-threading here, but I went through a season where I didn't understand that and I would pick up the guitar that I LOVED the day before and think it didn't sound as good as I originally thought. After a couple years (and more money than I wish I would have spent chasing tone) I realized that it was ME that was changing and if I just ignored the change it would eventually go away.

Hi, my name is Jason and I'm a recovering guitar ___________ [insert vulgar name for a promiscuous individual]....

heyguido · Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:05 am Post subject:

Hi, Jason. There's coffee in the back. You can pick up your chip on the way out.
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Dayo · Cinquecento Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 544 Location: UK

Imagine having to do pick-ups with the added complication of using two mics...
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Jason Huggins · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:46 pm Post subject:

Very valid point Colin! You'd have to always record with both mics...that might really impede ones creativity.

kgenus · Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject:

They do this all the time in animation studios... near/far mic setups. Does it benefit you to do as such, doubtful.
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Bruce · Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 am Post subject:

I love it when I send a client 2 or 3 different reads so they have different levels of energy to choose from, and then they send me some revised copy and don't tell me which read they picked. Decisions, decisions.

One tiny pain amongst the glory of recording at home unsupervised.

B
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VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

Bruce · Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:53 am Post subject:

Speaking of dual mics, I saw a news feature on Bonnie Raitt on Sunday and they show her using two mics to record, including what looks like a very old RCA ribbon mic. Cool. She's still cool too.

https://youtu.be/MzNSgAQR9yg?t=34s

B
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I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

MBVOXX · Posted: Mon May 09, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject:

I can't think of a single editor that I've ever worked with that would want different mic versions of the track I'm sending. That would only confuse them. The last time I asked an editor about his technical preferences regarding my tracks he said..."as long as it doesn't sound like crap I'm happy with it". And he, along with just about every other editor, wouldn't know the difference between any of the mics I have at my disposal once loaded into their Avid or Final Cut sequence.
I speak the truth. Just send them a few good takes and keep it clean.

And as Dayo said...pickups can be a hassle in that scenario. Just today I had some revision lines on a spot I recorded a month ago on a C12. I just couldn't match it up right with the 47fet today. Then I remembered using the 12 for the original session, rigged it up and knocked it out. Good reason right there to keep things consistent and dialed in.