VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[vogirl]

Okay, how many of you have had this happen. You go to a session knowing you're going to record 'x' amount of copy. You and the client have agreed on the price for the session and x amount of copy. You get there, and in front of the engineer he/she says "Oh, and since you're here, I'd like you to record this and this" (1 1/2 pages extra)

I started to say something but it was a brand new client, first time meeting him and it was awkward to bring up in front of the engineer. So I didn't say anything did the job and left. Kicked myself all the way home for not saying anything.

Three days later he calls and said they made a mistake on One Line. Can I come in to record it, like 5 minutes total.

I'm thinking now is the perfect time to say something to him, or should I wait till next time, IF there's a next time?

Thanks for any and all input!

[Deirdre]

Why be silent at the session?
Just ask if the addition is at the same rate as the rest of the copy.
You shouldn't be expected to spiff an extra page-and-a-half after having an agreement in place.
No one expects to pay for a bag of grapes at the grocer's and then add another bunch as they walk out the door.
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[vogirl]

Great analogy with the grapes - thanks!!

[Deirdre]

Just looking out for you.
Bad guys will try to steal your work now and then.
That's what unions are for, and places like this.

Welcome aboard.
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DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[Guest]

Thanks Deirdre;
I appreciate it. The guy totally caught me off guard. But now I'll have an idea what to say if it happens next time.

[Philip Banks]

The following takes confidence but has never failed.

Producer "While your here I need you to ......."

You (make eye contact, smile and say in a friendly way) "No, sorry"

Here's the difficult part

SHUT UP!

No matter how tempting it may be to say something, see above. You do not have to explain or remind the client of what was agreed. He is perfectly aware of what he is doing and so is the recording engineer.

[Don G.]

Well, are we talking about a spot or long format stuff? If the client wants you to do extra spots, then clearly they should pay for them at your agreed upon per spot rate. If you're doing a narration of 3 pages and the clent adds an extra 2 pages at the session, it takes the time it takes to do them. I bill hourly for non-broadcast, and if I can do it within the first billable hour, that's fine. But if by virtue of adding extra copy, we spill into the next hour, that will be billed accordingly.

With pickups after the fact, it often depends on the client. If I can do it at my convenience and it's just a few words and it's a regular client, I won't charge. If they need to book a session for it and I have to be at a certain place at a certain time, I'll charge a pick-up rate or a full session rate, depending on how much needs to be redone. The client understands.

[Philip Banks]

Minimum session fee. For the benefit of clients that is "the minimum fee I charge for doing a session".

At the end of a session I once had a client ask me to reduce my fee because I didn't take an hour to do the job. See my posting above to discover my response.

[vogirl]

Thanks for the responses. As far as they type of project, the original agreed upon copy was two pages for a big awards show in Vegas. The 'extra' copy was one full page of warm and fuzzy stuff = narration to run while the guy who had passed away had his pictures up in slides - at the same awards show. Then the third piece of copy was just one paragraph to be used in a documentary. Totally different from the two awards show pieces.

[mcm]

How about this: call or email the client (however you usually communicate) and say, "I'm preparing the invoice for the spots I did for you on [date x]. What's your budget for the extra work you requested?"

or, simply send the invoice, billing everything at the same rate or whatever rate is appropriate for the different kind of spots that they were. If you make the assumption that he's paying, perhaps he will make that assumption as well. As he should.

[vogirl]

Thanks again for all your input, it's very valuable.
I took MCM's advice and just wrote him an email. Saying how I felt and how I wanted to say something at the session but it caught me off guard, etc. I basically said I'd like to work with him in the future, but I felt I really should be paid for the extra work. I told him this is my livelihood, this is how I make my living. If it were just a paragraph extra, then maybe. But the 'extra' copy was almost the full length of the agreed upon copy.

So, it's out there, I'll let you know if he responds.

Thanks again to all - I'm so glad I found out about this site.

[Jeff McNeal]

It's reading stories like this that make me so glad that I have agents who set up most of my freelance gigs nowadays. It takes all the tension out of these situations, and puts extra money in my pocket, to boot.

Instead of looking the client in the eye, smiling and saying "no, sorry" (which I would consider extremely awkward and off-putting), I can smile, say "sure, you bet!", do the extra copy and walk out leaving everyone smiling. Then a quick call to my agent, inform them of the extra material and then forget about it. The client gets billed -- and pays -- and I don't come off looking like the bad guy in front of the producer, client, engineer, whatever. Frankly, this has seldom come up at all in many years. And when it does, the client is fully aware that additional renumeration will be expected.

As far as smaller clients or those who find me on the Internet and aren't generated by my agents, I simply tell them that my minimum session fee is $xxx for up to sixty seconds of finished audio. Anything beyond that is billed at an additional rate of $xx per minute, billed incrementally by the second. Everyone understands. No confusion, no questions. Very simple.

The bottom line is this: Your clients should have a clear understanding of your billing procedures before either of you step into the studio, so that there are no awkward moments, surprises or misunderstandings.

[mcm]

The trouble with telling the client how you felt, even though you have already done it - is that you're opening up the floor for a harangue. Behaving as though it goes without saying that he will do the right thing is more likely to produce the results you want.

Wish I could take my own advice with clients who demand 14-page narrations ASAP.

[vogirl]

Unfortunately I had already invoiced him after the session - so it was too late. That was earlier in the week. I decided to email him after the fact, today. Either way, if felt good to get it off my chest.

Now I'll know to say something at the time, or like Jeff suggested, get everything ironed out before we even get to the session.

[Philip Banks]

I think Jeff's comments sum things up quite well. But we are all responding to a question which in essence is "What should I do about a situation in which I should never have found myself?" In any and every situation we play the hand were dealt in the best way possible.

For a commission an agent gets us a fair days pay for a fair days work. The money is to take the flack yet they are no better equipped than us to deal with an unscrupulous client.

Subtle negotiating skills are very powerful when there is no "middle-man". A good example would be the "Just smile and say no". Would it be taken as a flat refusal? Highly unlikely, it's a direct way to open up a dialogue which is why the SHUT UP instruction is so important. I would not presume to guess what the clients reaction would've been but suspect he would have tried to keep to his own agenda, getting the job done.

My specific approach would've been to take one of the sheets of copy and written a number on it e.g $100 followed by the question.

"So it's ok for me to add this to what we already agreed? Happy with that?" No embarrassment for anyone.

In the case of a session arranged by my agent, like Jeff, there would be the deafening sound of me making no comment at all. Following the session a quick call to the aforementioned.

"Victoria, we did A,B and C. I'll leave it to you to bill accordingly" Oh for the uncomplicated life!!!!