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ccpetersen · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: format files

I read through some back discussions about file formats, and have a question.

We've been working in .wav files pretty much at our studio, that being the standard file that we get asked for. Occasionally somebody will want an MP3 for an evaluation file (easier to send), but almost always for final production, it's .wav

So, we have a colleague who is developing a project, and he's insisting on .ogg, claiming that it's a de-facto standard; however, we haven't had anybody else ask for it. I have seen it used in games (I like to play Myst and Uru, for example, and the games come with sounds in both wav and ogg).

So,is our colleague all wet? Anybody here asked to provide .ogg (which is compressed) for a professional project?
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CWToo · Guest

Vorbis is an open source audio compression utility that was created to get around the MP3 patents held by the Fraunhofer Society. Industry standard? Depends on the industry. It seems to have some popularity with game designers but it isn't ubiquitous in the advertising audio business.

Dave · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:25 am Post subject:

Well... it may well be "his standard" but it would seem quite a stretch to claim .ogg as the industry standard Shocked

FWIW, I've never had a client ask for .ogg but if its .ogg they want its .ogg they will get.
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ccpetersen · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:28 am Post subject:

bobbinbeamo · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:31 am Post subject:

OMG- OGG. Where have I been? At the risk of sounding like an idiot....This is a first for me. Better do some homework.
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Frank F · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:32 am Post subject:

CC, as CWToo stated .ogg and .ogg/vorbis are used mostly in games. Main reason: the high cost of implementing the patented Fraunhofer's .mp3 codec.

An alternative to using .ogg is the LAME codec (an MPEG II, Layer III or works like an ,mp3 codec) which is a patent free codec. LAME is not for everyone - it is distributed as source code only and requires the ability to use a C compiler. LAME is Open Source software distributed under GPL licensing, as is .ogg and .ogg vorbis.

For .mp4 level source code see the FLAC/FAAD codecs at www.SourceForge.net

Remember too; .ogg cannot be listened in most .mp3 players. Winamp plays .ogg but WMP does not. An iPod won't play .ogg either. Also how are you going to encode the .ogg file? Just a few things to think about when making the decision.

Good luck.

Toodles

Frank F
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todd ellis · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:42 am Post subject:

bobbinbeamo · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:48 am Post subject:

UGH, I mean OGG. I actually have a lame converter for Goldwave. Because I've never had this file format request I've probably overlooked its existence.
Frank, you are an amazing source of information. I will check this out, just in case my clients begin requesting this file format.
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ccpetersen · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:03 am Post subject:

Frank,

Good info!

Yes, I had noticed .ogg only in the games I have here; but had never had it asked for "professionally."

I notice that Audacity (which I use) converts nicely (since it has the LAME plugin) but my copy of SoundForge 4.5 does NOT do it. Our studio version of SF9 does do it, so that's another source of conversion.

I suspect that since this colleague's requirement is for a specialized use, we'll provide .ogg, but will note that when muxed with a video track, provides "double" the audio compression. Definitely NOT something to be happy about...
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Frank F · Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:40 am Post subject:

Here are a few places to check out .ogg encoders/players (with links to plug-ins for computer based players):

http://www.vorbis.com/

Here you can find "everything you really didn't want to know about .ogg and .ogg/vorbis encoding/decoding".

As far as compression, encode at a much higher rate (at least double) than what your final destination will be.. i,.e.: for a final bit rate of 64 kbps, encode at 128 kbps. Most video streams play back at 64 kbps for .ogg... so be wary of how you encode the product to .ogg.

It's not likely clients will request the LAME product by name, they will just request .mp3. Encoding with LAME is faster and has some other pluses than when encoding with Fraunhofer patented variety. Both, are seen by playback systems as the tag: .mp3.

Requesting the .ogg file description is also something which most clients will NOT request. Both .ogg and .mp3 are "lossy" formats, so one is really not much "better" than the other... File size and perceived quality would be the only real differences between the two codecs.

Good luck,

Toodles

F2
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