VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[SoundsGreat-Elaine Singer]

Interesting Brian. I had a similar experience with the feedback request after my premium membership expired. I replied with what I thought were constructive suggestions. Not only did I not get a response - I got another request for feedback. So I repeated my earlier suggestions and still got no acknowledgement for my brilliant suggestions.
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Elaine
The Youthful Mature Voice (Emeritus)
Senectitude is not for the faint of heart.

[Drew]

So, Mrs. Lincoln. Aside from that little disturbance in the balcony, what did ya think of the play?


Ya got my feedback, Alex. So, often when I've complained about how things were done, I got the same response from your ever changing cast of characters. "If you don't like it don't renew." As Brian suggested, WE keep your raft in the water. Not the other way around. So, you should defend your business.
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www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald.

[glittlefield]

While I'm hardly at the level of most here, I'll chime in as well. I joined for a year and managed to answer probably over 100 leads in that time. Most of the problem was that I wasn't able to answer right away (day job) and when I did manage to do a demo, there were already 400 other responses ahead of me. I can hardly believe that any V123 client is going to listen to ALL 401 auditions to make their pick. Some may have, but my bet is that the majority do not. I ended up not bothering for a while.

Once the year was up, I snapped into reality and realized I'm not at a stage right now to toss out another $200 for cattle calls. I've put the money into taking classes here in town, equipment, books, etc. and spend my time knocking out ad copy, Dr. Seuss, or whatever for practice reading things outloud.

Basically, Alex, I followed your advice. I didn't like it and didn't renew. That's one hell of a business model to run.
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Greg Littlefield
VO-BB Member #59

[Philip Banks]

[Travis]

Hi everyone.

I recently started my 3d year with voice123 - I've been watching them for longer.

Here's my take:

1) From everything I've observed, it appears that the folks running voice123 are committed to running a profitable business with good intentions -- They intend to be profitable while providing a valuable service to their customers. I've seen no evidence that they intend to mislead anybody, or rip anyone off. Their terms of service (what you get for what you pay) are reasonably clear. Like so many business types in showbiz (agents, managers, teachers, producers, how-to publishers, etc. etc.), they take advantage of the fact that every performer thinks they're somehow entitled to all the parts that are offered.

2) Their user interface is excellent - far better than Interactive Voices. You can see how many others have applied for a role - you can check a file to make sure it's the right one after uploading before you commit to using that take. Many other features work well. One thing that I would change is the audio playback quality of auditions - If someone posts a job on v123 and IV, IV wins out - the audition will sound much better.

3) Both IV and V123 are pioneers in online casting - It's new, and it will take about a decade to work out most of the kinks. I think it's important to at least watch them to see where online casting is going.

4) Voice123 pushes the "low-cost" aspect way too far. What we offer is not product, but art. Any "real" producer with a "real" project is not going to be shopping for the lowest cost, but for a sound which will do the job. What is a producer with a "national" commercial, who is willing to pay "up to $300.00" thinking?

5) If you've ever been involved in a casting project, you know that after hearing about twenty or thirty "qualified" people for a part, you can't hear anymore - someone may do an excellent audition, but because your ears have become numb, you won't notice. (Professional casting people can go much longer before they tune out.) That's why there are casting directors - they locate the best four (or twenty) auditions to present to the director. The director's job of casting then becomes possible. When Voice123 presents two-hundred-fifty auditions to a client, only about twenty or so are actually heard (not necessarily the first ones), even though the client may have played all of them.

6) The ratio of jobs to auditions is WAY out of balance. Two-hundred auditions to get one $100.00 to $300.00 gig might be acceptable to someone just getting their feet wet, but working below $5.00/hour makes no economic sense to a "professional".

--To be continued--
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Travis
www.VOTalent.com

[Doc]

I know a successful, local producer who actually suggested V123 to me. In fact, that's how I heard of them. Obviously, it certainly isn't the most talked-about among talent. And, when it is, it certainly isn't very flattering. However, real producers DO use them. Since my referral, I have had local contact with several other producers who say they use V123 as one of their talent sources. Okay, Alex... before you begin to puff up...

However, they also reveal their reasons for using V123... and, in this case, they are unanimous! I have been told by them that they can find "adequate" talent "cheap". Now, while these producers are professional and very good at what they do they, too, are at the mercy of the clients. Clients low-ball producers as well and when they cannot get the clients to cough up what it would take to really give them a quality piece, THEY must acquiesce. Everybody needs to put bread on the table.

While I have a cast-iron ego... I can't see paying $195/year (or whatever it costs or is going to cost) to be considered as "adequate" and "cheap".

I am a standard (free) member at V123 for marketing purposes only. It gives me another link back and a bit more exposure. And, I thank you, Alex, for the free exposure. I have not ascertained a "Premium" membership for the very reasons stated above.

[audio'connell]

I don't if I've matured or if I am just more apathetic but I'm not as frustrated by V123 as I have been in the past. I'm not a cheerleader by ANY stretch of the imagination but I guess my first thought was kudos to Alex for finally stepping up to the plate and addressing issues aired on this forum. But Alex, V123's customer service history is less than stellar so you (on behalf of the company, not you personally)are going to have to withstand some well deserved punches here. Gloves down, now is not the time to defend but to absorb...it will be worthwhile in the end.

My major complaint with V123 continues to be the low balling of projects because it reflects badly on the industry....by fostering a low ball pricing atmosphere, V123 damages the entire industry whether or not that is the intent and I don't believe it was the site's orginal intent.

Point system, shmoint system...if V123 wants some impressive turnaround in VO attitude about the service (and build renewals), try building on some of these ideas....
* No submitted voice projects accepted without a budget...period!
* No submitted voice projects accepted with a budget less than $200...no matter what. For smaller projects, the cheap ass clients have to go elsewhere....make the Voice 123 brand worth something.....if I want worthless...I'll to a local five and dime.
* No custom demos for any budget less than $400

Those are fast impactful changes that would more than likely build your business model and make your fee more worth while.

Operationally, V123 can see here and on other boards, VO's are pretty vocal about their distain for the service and obviously renewals have been poor for V123 or you would not be making these suggested changes (if it worked, you wouldn't need to fix it). Mind you, its ok that you're making changes when you've got problems cause that's what thoughtful business people do...the really smart business people never get themselves in a pickel to begin with, however.

So build value, dump the trash clients (who aren't making V123 any money anyway) and watch the business be postively impacted in a way no web site redesign could ever hope to do.

Or confuse and annoy your customers the same way weight loss companies do with their point system. Your choice.
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- Peter
audioconnell Voice Over Talent
Your friendly, neighborhood voice over talent

[skynet74]

I plan on giving them a year to work out all the kinks and then see where things stand. I'm not willing to shell out $200 Bucks or more to be part of their experiment.


John

[Drew]

Just off the Public Lead Press:


"Hi I am looking for someone firstly that is reliable, dependable that can read scripts of books for the purpose of making audio-cd's for me.. Someone with proven skills and talent. The age would be between 30-50, corporate voice, good diction, union or non-union doesn't matter. My budget is between $200.00 - $500.00 per reading. For example a book of 260-pages. I need an urban flavor, African American male voice and later a female voice also. But, not too urban; "urban professional" would be the type. Please send a demo and price quote. "


Obviously, this job poster hasn't a clue. Let's try $2,000 to $5,000 to start.

That's just one of the issues we're talking about here.
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www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald.

[skynet74]

Name one sinlge voice talent who would read a 250 page BOOK for $200 and I will show you a Voice talent who really underestimates his value. I agree. $2,000 to $5,000. BUT..... $200 ???? WHAT AN INSULT!


John

[Travis]

--Continuing--

7) Comments I've received from producers/directors who have used Voice123 indicate that they were inundated with auditions, usually above a hundred - "most of which weren't very good". However, everyone was able to pick an "adequate" to "excellent" voice for their project at lower cost than they otherwise would have paid. Producers in small markets were able to get talent which was "much better", but at a cost they thought was "above their normal budget".

8 - The voice-over world has changed dramatically in the last decade. Voice123 is attempting to take advantage of that situation - but nobody really has any idea what's going on - or what the future holds.

9) $200.00/year will appear to be too much to pay for 5 auditions-per-month.

10) The "Hollywood System" has expanded to include the entire country, and much of the world. As a result, if Voice123 is successful, it will ultimately be worthwhile to only a very small portion of it's voice-over clientelle -- the rest will feel disappointed and ripped off -- (just like those who feel taken advantage of by their agents, unions, managers, etc.)

--More to come??--
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Travis
www.VOTalent.com

[Bailey]

Research...

http://www.torrenegra.com/group/content/our_history

Voice123... Language123... Casting123... at least someone is making money in the 123 business.

Could this be why I'm getting an influx of Spam from South America?
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"Bailey"
a.k.a. Jim Sutton
Retired... Every day is Saturday, except Sunday.
VO-BB Member #00044 .gif" alt="W00T" border="0" />
AOVA Graduate 02/2004 ;
"Be a Voice, not an Echo."

[Doc]

I agree. I commend Alex for actually coming here to see what all the hub-bub is about. However, blue-skying won't work. Mind you, I'm not accusing of that, just forewarning.

I also got to thinking about why clients offer sub-standard fees and moreover why there is talent to accept those low-ball fees. What I came up with is that, especially for those of us who came up with a radio background and either still pursue broadcast careers or are breaking into the industry, what we're faced with is free production for local clients. Production is written right into our job descriptions - goes with the territory. What this does is demonstrates to clients that they really can have their spots produced for free AND, in some cases have them distributed for free as well. Yes, they have to pay for air time, but not a penny for their commercials. Back in the "good ol' days", even in smaller markets, talent received fees for local productions, PLUS distribution fees if the client wanted their spots aired on other stations/markets. Some general managers will promise direct clients and/or ad agencies the moon just to get them to buy time. And, you can't blame the ad agencies for requiring full distribution in order to procure the buy.

While I was never able to charge for a station production, unless I was asked to endorse the product, I always ascertained whether the production would be distributed. And, I ALWAYS charged the client/agency a distribution fee in this circumstance.

Let's assume that those grabbing up those $20 spots in the audition databases believe that $20 is better than nothing. All I can say to that is, no matter how talented they may be, they're simply cutting their own professional throats by doing so. Even if they're making future contacts, well, you remember the old joke, "We've already established what you are... the question is how much?"

[marko]

[dhouston67]

Peter,

You had me at "No custom demos for any budget less than $400".

Well done.



...On a related note: Interactive Voices is beginning to drop that ball too. They introduced budget categories a while back (100 to 250, 250 to 500, etc), ostensibly ensuring that no sub-$100 jobs would be offered. Lately, however, lots of jobs are submitted with "please quote" entered into the budget field, essentially allowing clients to say that it's solely about the lowest bidder.

IV has cultivated a fairly good reputation by incessantly touting its services in web press releases, but practices like the one above will only serve to damage it in the long run, a la Peter's V123 issues noted above.
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Great Voice. Great Choice. For Voice Talking and stuff.
http://davidhoustonvoice.com
Do That Voice! - The DHV Blog