VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Nikki]

I've been doing that dangerous thing of looking up things in the forum again...when I go looking for an answer to one question, I inevidably come up with another one. And this one has me a little stretched.

One bit I saw...find the Buyers and shop yourself to them and get THEIR opinions on your work as you're up and coming.

So where do I find the Buyers? Are these agents? Where do you go to audition and submit your work that is not a P2P site? Those seem self explanatory after all. But where else do you get your clients and tap the industry of your choice?

Thanks lots for your help!

[Philip Banks]

The reason most Voiceoverists engage in DUHs (distractions and useless habits) is because the number of Buyers is exceeded by the number of Sellers.

The voice event of 2010 was Voice2010 in LA. Any buyers there?

"Hello. I'm Philip Banks. I'll be back in the UK by Monday afternoon, will you have any work for me?"

"Heck no. I ain't even made a demo yet!"

If you, as a VO, are a work in progress you do not seek out the person with a cheque book and ask him to express an opinion on your progress. Think of yourself as a product, make sure what you are selling is fit for purpose and then bang loudly on doors shouting "BUY ME".

Are other VOs able to help you find buyers? Ask the straight question. Did you work yesterday and if so did you earn a meaningful amount? In the majority of cases the answer will be a big fat no. In some cases the answer will be yes to the first part of the question and no to the second part. When you find someone who gives you the "double yes" see if you can get them to explain how they got to that stage in their career.

Here's the key. The real Buyers are buried beneath 200 metres of BS..Start digging.

[bobsouer]

[Nikki]

Strangely enough, I think I understood all that.

Good then, I shall continue with my original business plan and get there when I get there!

Thanks for the feedback!

[jsgilbert]

After what has seemed like a very long time without any major production work, over the next few months, I have several projects that I am producing which will require casting 12 - 15 actors. Some of this work, due to its nature will require local actors who can come to my studio. Another project will be utilizing a higher end production studio and 2 other projects, where several talent I believe can work remotely from home.

Some of the actors may wind up getting used for more than one project, which may actually mean the physical number of aactors I would hire could be 10.

Based on how this year is going, I expect that I may wind up actually casting no more than 50 actors for the entire year of 2010. Again, given the projects, some actors may wind up doing multiple projects, which may mean that the number of physical actors I will hire could be 35.

Of those 35 actors, perhaps half may be actors I have identified and worked with via the internet.

That would mean I might be hiring 16 - 18 seperate physical actors to work from their home studios in the entire year of 2010.

Contrast this to 2007, where I hired 120 or so different actors, with perhaps as many as 60 representing internet talent.

And my understanding is that this year, production wise, I am actually doing better than many.

So, bearing that in mind, I will do my best to take off my actors hat and put on my producers cap and talk about some things that work or don't work well when I am contacted by talent looking for work.

I think the first thing to understand when marketing is that when I get an email or phone call from an actor looking for work, it invariably seems at first blush that it might be someone looking to hire me. Depending upon the day or hour, discovering that a call I thought might turn into a job is actually somebody looking for work, might be enough for me to react negatively.

I'm also not a fan of the send me an email every week telling me what work you've done and what agent you've signed with.

I'm also being fairly picky about who I let into my social networks these days. I've kicked a few actors out recently for stepping on my toes and messing with my clients. Some think it's okay to invite everyone of my Facebook friends to join them and/ or to inundate people with invites to workshops, etc. I may have met you briefly at a mixer or exchanged an email or two, but that doesn't mean I want you in my Facebook.

Most of the actors in my facebook contribute in a varety of ways by adding quality humor, good links, interesting repartee, and even job leads, etc. I have discovered several actors blogs this way and subscribe to some of them.

But perhaps more importantly is that I have established relationships with people whose work I admire and who I respect. There are people here who I have not worked with, who don't know this - but I have pitched them for work. In some cases, several times.

Opportunites for new actors exist when ocassionally I have requirements for talent that are very narrow. This may include doing kids voices or high quality impersonations. Other times, I have been afraid to approach actors with work becuase their posts simply make it seem that they are too busy or perhaps my budget too low.

Lots of producers and directors have established relationships with actors and wish that we had more work for the actors we already do business with. That said, an actor can do something to piss you off and get dropped or they couold besick, on vacation or otherwise be unavailable.

One actor I worked with fairly regularly got cast in a project I was doing and then when asked to come back and do some more work in the same character voice 6 months later, demanded a 50% rate increase. The rate was actually quite good to start.

After casting a sound alike to do the new work, the talent begged to come back at their previous rate. They then agreed to take a cut in pay to get the "job" back. In this case, they had handled things very poorly and they are someone I will not likely work with again.

Asa pretty cool director once said to me "we may forgive, but we don't forget." I don't hate the actor, but with 100 other actors willing to bend over backwards to work, does it make sense?

Someone who I got to know on the boards has been very good about pushing his money voice and particular skills set and when I needed someone to step in for a big project earlier this year, I called him and I think he made over $3,000 for a few days worth of work.

I could probably talk on this subject for several days straight, but I will simply end with my advice that cold calling doesn't usually work. If you are going to cold call someone, then take the time to learn who the person is and what projects they have done, etc.

A call from someone to me that shows me they have taken the time to research who I am and constructed a pitch that isn't canned, but speaks to my needs and wants and allows me to see how they may be plugged in as A POTENTIAL SOLUTION, goes the farthest.

Recently I had a voice talent with a very different vocal range approach me about doing some mutual referrals. I just tried to get another talent into a project I am doing to thank him for sending his agent a letter saying that they thought I would make a great addition to their roster.

In particular, when we are in troubled economic times, the approach of "what can I do for you?" tends to work quite well.

And on this same subject, if you're talking to a producer, then don't be a producer too. If it comes up that their may be something value added to what you do, then great. If I'm hiring you, I want a voice actor.

Hope this has helped a little bit.

You can always drop me a line at jsgilbert@pacbell.net and I'd be happy to discuss any of this or other aspects of the hiring procedure.
_________________
j.s. gilbert

js@jsgilbert.com
www.jsgilbert.com

"today is the first day of the rest of the week"

[Nikki]

Thanks, that was great J.S.!

I love the insight into the 'who' and 'why' in particular. I think as I get to understand all of this I'll having some more pointed questions for certain.

[Donna]

js gilbert wrote:

[Philip Banks]

You meet someone, let's say .......ooooooooooo........I don't know...........oh yeah, at VOICE2010 for example.

"Hi. I'm Julie Lee-Wardwind. I'm a Voice Talent" In response you furrow your brow and looked slightly puzzled.

"Really? Oh...Ok. Hello, I'm Philip Banks"

Julie's defence shields are on full power and her machine guns start firing. Armour-piercing Self-justification bullets start to spray you from head to foot. You stand silently taking multiple hits until she runs out of ammo and her defence shields drop as the final drip of impulse power is drained away.

Julie wasn't equipped to have a conversation with another person as it would appear she left her ears in her hotel room along with her brain.

As a VO we have demos, web pages, a CV and experience. When we stop using them as weapons to bludgeon poor unsuspecting producers into submission we may just make some real progress.

[Moe Egan]

Wait. Did I miss the machine guns at Voice?
_________________
Moe Egan
i want to be the voice in your head.
~~~~~

[jsgilbert]

Philip got me to thinking, that I rarely introduce myself as Hi, I'm J.S. Gilbert. I'm a voice actor."

More like, "Hi, I'm J.S." or "Hi, I'm J.S. Gilbert" and even then when the conversation invariably gets around to the old "and what do you do?", voice over may come up third or fifth, or it might not come up at all.

It may seem strange to some of you, but to others, I am certain it makes quite a bit of sense.

As for the rest of the nonsense that I wrote earlier, it should be noted that this is my world. Ask 100 people who hire talent or involved in the hiring process thier take on the situation and you'll likely get no response. But if they did respond and were somewhat honest when doing so, you would probably hear lots of different things.

Some of which are:

We cast through such and such Casting Agency and don't approach individual actors.

We cast through the talent agents. Who are you represented by?

My dog ate my homework.

I will more than likely will be using someone I have worked with before as the talent.

We prefer to only use J.S. Gilbert.

My wife just took an introductory v.o. course and she'll be doing all my v.o. from now on.

I have quite a bit of work to offer, but you'd make more money simply saying "Would you like fries with that."

Why are you bothering me? How'd you get this phone number? Get out from behind that bush and how did you know where I live?


Some people like constant reminders. Some like to see a pic of the voice talent, especially if they're yooung and attracive. Some like getting postcards. Some work well with referrals. And with others, it could just be a matter of lucj and/or timing.

And when approaching potential clients, they all come in diufferent shapes and sizes, differnet degrees of experience, different walk the walks and talk the talks depending upon the industry.

I've got one client that hires me to do political spots, but her true passion is documentary work. She rarely will ever discuss her spot work, becuase it just pays the bills and let's her do her "important" work.

This is why I say it's very important to research people before pitching them.

And just for laughs I should tell you about the 6 people who completely did what I said not to do when they "pitched" me after I wrote my first post on this thread. (and no, I am not talking about the people who either posted here or wrote me to simply say thanks. Nothing wrong with that in my book.)

Perhaps the best piece of advice I have is that it's okay to be either ignorant or not too bright. But if that's you, then don't do any selling.
_________________
j.s. gilbert

js@jsgilbert.com
www.jsgilbert.com

"today is the first day of the rest of the week"

[Bob Bergen]

This has been a fun and informative read! And JS, my friend, thank you for your contributions!!!!!! Great to hear from the point of view of the buyer.

The term "buyer" is used by agents, actors, managers, etc. It's anyone who has the ability to hire talent. It could be the studio, producer, toy company, ad exec, etc.

Tonight is the first VOX on the Rocks here in LA in almost 2 years. For those who don't know what it is, check out the VOX on the Rocks facebook page. Networking is OH so important when pursuing and working in VO. But being a good networker is as or more important than the opportunity TO network.

If you are good at it, the person you are networking to has no idea you are networking. Over the years actors, agents, casting directors, producers, etc., attend VOX. Mostly actors. But the buyers come because they don't feel bombarded by desperate, needy actors. I tell actors to please don't bring a stack of demos. The purpose of this gathering is purely social. Like folks meeting like folks. BUT-by virtue of being like folks you can't help but network.

Want to keep in touch with a buyer? Ask for THEIR business card rather than give them yours. I can't tell you how many dozens of business cards were thrown in my face at VOICE in a way that felt more like begging than networking. Huge turn off for any buyer...and I'm not a buyer! I will graciously accept any business card. But my first thought is always a quote from Mr Mom. "Jack, you're doing it wrong!"

You ask for their business card, you now have the opportunity to follow up. Give them yours and you are hoping they will take the time to follow up with you. Guess what? They probably won't. They don't want or need to.
Now, if the networking is going well after you've asked for their card they will ask for yours. If they don't, don't force it!

At Promax this year I collected almost 60 business cards. I followed up with everyone. Got 10 auditions and tested for 2 networks.

As for the comment earlier in this thread of the needy person at VOICE introducing themselves as a voice talent, depending on the approach it may or may not come across as needy. But being that this was done at a VO event, odds are that there were many other voice actors also hanging around, so this person was just trying to find fellow attendees to bond with. Now, a better approach would have been for her to ask if the persons she was introducing herself to was there for the event. And if the answer was yes, ask about them to get the ball rolling rather than throw yourself in their face. It's the same philosophy of asking for their card vs giving them yours. Make it about them to share about you. Again, there's an art to good networking. (and everyone pursuing VO should take marketing classes..most colleges have marketing extension courses!)

Also, a little humility goes a long way. If you are a successful working actor, don't assume everyone knows you or anything about you. There's a fine line between confident and cocky. No one wants to work with cocky. But confidence with humility is magnetic to a buyer. Last Friday I saw the head of a studio's animation department introduce himself to one of the most successful voice actors in the business. Both had worked "together" for years but had never met. Both were humble, more interested in the other person rather than themselves, etc.

Many years ago I was at The Four Seasons bar here in LA waiting for a business meeting to start. I was sitting in the lounge and up walks a couple, one of which was Elizabeth Taylor. I never get star struck, but OMG-it was Elizabeth f-ing Taylor! A few moments later another couple sits down and there are now about 6 of us on shared couches sipping cocktails. One of the newer to join us started up a, "Where are you all from/what do you do?" type of conversation. Elizabeth Taylor answers, "I'm from LA." "OH, what do you do?" "I'm an actress," was her response with the same polite matter of factness one would have if their response were school teacher or accountant. "OH, would we have seen you on anything?" These people had NO idea who she was, even after she said her name. And she treated the situation with class and humility, never any pretense or attitude. "Oh, I've been doing this since I was a child. More or less retired these days. What do you do?" I was impressed as hell. I also wanted to lick her, but held my tongue.

I have seen some of THE most talented people in the business shoot themselves in the foot by being "mightier than thou" at sessions or auditions. These are usually, believe it or not, newer talent trying to fit in with their tude, either thinking this is the way successful folks should be OR they are just nervous and trying to play it cool. And I've seen 6 figure successful actors act with sincere humility and a genuine sense of "thank you so much for thinking of me" with the buyers. And this is the majority of those successful in VO in LA.

But networking with buyers is vital! Doing it well is essential. Oh-and keep in mind, today's assistant or receptionist is tomorrow's agent or producer. They are your best friend! Never snub em! Remember their names! And thank them after!

[Philip Banks]

I enjoyed reading that, thank you Bob.

[Eddie Eagle]

Finished my 1st bowl of popcorn and making a 2nd. Good stuff.

[Gregory Best]

Eddie, pass the popcorn. This is good stuff. Good seeing you here JS. No, I won't hound you. My best opportunities have come from where and when I least expected it. From people I had not "networked" but I knew them. They either knew I do VO or asked.

The best marketing is being available to be a problem solver.
_________________
Gregory Best

greg@gregorybest.com

[Donna]

This has become one of the most interesting threads in a very long while. Huge thanks to Messrs. Bergen, Gilbert, and Banks for taking the time to share your experiences. And Nikki, way to get the ball rolling!

Pass the popcorn, Eddie!
_________________
Dangerous.

Donna Postel
donnapostel.com
donna@donnapostel.com