VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Jacob Ekstroem

Ressurecting this old thread to give you my 2 cents:
[referencing this old thread:
Source Connect Discussion from 2007 ~Deebs]

Just had my first Souce-Connect gig today, 19 months after making the $395 investment.

The good thing: the gig covered the investment a couple of times over, so it wasn't a complete waste of money Smile

The bad thing: LATENCY! We had a 5-6 sec delay in the session, which made me think about those satellite news coverings where the studio asks the reporter a question, and the reporter just stands there for several seconds, looking stupid. Now, while the sound quality was great, I can fully understand why that kind of delay is the reason studios are reluctant to use Source-Connect over ISDN. It's painstakingly annoying.[url][/url]
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Jacob - Danish Voice Overs (try it... it sounds really funny, too!)

Lizden · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:16 am Post subject:

Jacob,
I can relate.
While it was really fun rereading this thread, & I'm glad I have it, I have to say that I have used SC...maybe 3 times in the 4 years I've had it.
I've had ISDN for 2 years and have lost count as to how many times I've used it.

Again, I'm glad I have it, but that latency is an issue, and it's STILL not widely used. A shame really, as it's getting harder to get ISDN in the US, but those studios that have it are NOT giving it up yet.
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Liz de Nesnera O.A.V. ~ Livin' The VO Dream!
English/French Bilingual VO w/ ISDN
HireLiz.com / liz@hireliz.com

Jacob Ekstroem · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:30 am Post subject:

Liz, I couldn't get ISDN even if I wanted to - it's being phased out here in Sweden and you can't order the service anymore, and I guess the carriers are just waiting for the last remaing subscribers to find alternatives. I had thought, hoped even, SC could be it. Now I'm not so sure Frown

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Jacob - Danish Voice Overs (try it... it sounds really funny, too!)

Tom Test · DC Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 629 Location: Chicago, IL

Well this is a good reality check for me, since I've been contemplating investing in Source Connect myself. I just got ISDN this year, and I am beginning to make inroads.

Question: if a studio has SC, would they also likely have ISDN? Or are there a lot of studios that ONLY use Source Connect? If the latter is the case, that means SC might still be well worth the investment (and the latency hassle).

Thanks very much for your insight, Jacob!
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Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
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bobsouer · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject:

Tom,

I don't know if this will be helpful in your decision-making or not; but at least some of the studios I work with have both ISDN and Source Connect. I know this because in the last 12 months I've have done 7 sessions with Source Connect because the studio (more than one studio) was having trouble with their own ISDN service. In at least a couple of those cases, I would not have done the session if I hadn't been able to switch to Source Connect.

So, there is some overlap, but I don't know how much or how extensive. I hope that's at least a little helpful.
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Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
Source Connect, phone patch, pony express

Tom Test · DC Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 629 Location: Chicago, IL

No Bob. Your comments are not a little helpful. They are extremely helpful! Thank you for sharing your own personal experience with Source Connect.
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Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

bobsouer · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject:

Tom,

You are most welcome.
_________________
Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
Source Connect, phone patch, pony express

georgethetech · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject:

We've seen round-trip latency (often measured in frames by the engineers), including the ISDN bridge, of 25-30 frames as typical. That's about 1 second. Considering that's the delay of Source Connect plus ISDN, round trip, it ain't too bad. 5-6 seconds of delay is atypical in my experience, and may be caused by network issues at either end of the connection. I know in Sweden bandwidth is typically NOT an issue.
When I occasionally monitor bridging sessions at OutOfHear, its amazing how often the issues are ISDN related, not Source Connect. We're always monkeying with the Zephyrs, rebooting, etc. Rebooting an ISDN codec is so commonplace these days, it's seen as SOP. I don't see ISDN getting more reliable, but less, as the switches and copper age and increase their failure rate. It won't keep the studios that have invested into and hardwired ISDN into their workflow, though. A lot of them in LA don't want to put down their coffee and learn something new...
Those like Buzzy's and VoiceTrax West are the ones who stay on the cutting edge and want to be the leaders in their niches with the latest and/or best technology available...
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George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
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JTVG · Backstage Pass Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 433

George,
I'm sure you and Steve have already addressed this, but for those having to reboot Zephyrs often, it may be time to send it into Telos for firmware updates and an examination. I was having issues that made me have to reboot often, sent it in and now I never have to reboot. It just sits there and does its thing.
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Joe Szymanski
http://www.joethevoiceguy.com

Dave Waters · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:51 am Post subject:

Hey George,

In your conversations with the folks at BSW, have you discussed the broadcast IP codecs? I've heard the names Comrex, Mayah and Tieline bandied about and am wondering if they have potential.

Since the Telos ISDN products got their start at the broadcast level, it might be good to see what they are using these days.
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Dave Waters
www.davewatersvo.com

Jacob Ekstroem · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:50 am Post subject:

Ahem, Gentlemen - should we have a "ISDN discussion - New thread" aswell? Wink

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Regards,
Jacob - Danish Voice Overs (try it... it sounds really funny, too!)

Boothvoice · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:33 am Post subject:

Okay....so is ISDN still a worthwhile investment for building my business? If I have $3,500 to invest am I better off with ISDN or a new Neumann U-87?
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Tom Booth
"Everything You Need in the Booth"
www.boothvoice.com

georgethetech · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject:

I've observed and tested the variety of IP codec hardware on the market. They all lack one thing: Market penetration in the VO industry.
Source Connect has it, the others don't. Mayah has the nicest hardware, but still has its issues with ISDN, as does Tieline. They were designed with IP as primary function, and ISDN secondary. Comrex has no ISDN function, so it's less flexible.
These codecs are used by radio stations for STL (station-transmitter link) and field reporters. They are designed for reliability and low delay, but audio fidelity falls short of Source Connect in most cases, unless configured to use AAC. Again, when the plug is pulled on ISDN, who knows which technology the big players will adopt? All I know is SC (and AudioTX to a lesser extent) have the exposure in the VO industry, mostly due to their comparatively affordable barrier to entry.

Boothvoice: I am sure Sommer agrees that if you have $3500 to blow on a mic you'd better have one heck of a great sounding, quiet studio first. As to which to get first if you've got the previously mentioned squared away? I'd say ISDN for sure, IF you are missing out on potential clients that use ISDN on a regular basis.
_________________
If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder

Mike Sommer · Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject:

ballenberg · Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:40 am Post subject:

Really? Not a lot of businesses can recoup the cost of a major piece of equipment in a month or two. It's an investment--not an expendable.