VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

mcm · Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: Volume

I have been beating my head against this wall since the beginning. I simply do not have decent volume when I record and end up having to increase the volume in post (and then I have to remove noise that gets amplified along with the VO Frown

). With my current set-up at least I can max out the volume if I shout, but at normal VO volume I don't - I get about 20%. I just got that Samson usb mic to take on my trip, and to test it out I hooked it up to my kids' computer and let them play with it - and had to adjust the volume control DOWN because they were maxing out at normal conversation levels. I was insanely jealous.

My current signal chain is Soundelux U195 mic to Symetrix 528e (which I just use for amplification, I don't use any processing) to Echo Mia Midi sound card with levels properly adjusted on the Echo mixer, to Adobe Audition in a Dell Precision 360 workstation, 3.1 GHz Pentium 4 with 1 GB RAM. I've used the same computer and recording software all along, but have used other sound cards/interfaces (Soundblaster Audigy 2, Firewire 410), a different preamp (Behringer UB802 mixer which has a preamp that is slightly more muscular than the Symetrix), and different microphones (Rode NT1A, AT4060, Gefell M930), and although there has been some difference - e.g. the more sensitive mics like the last three mentioned give better volume, it is still an ongoing problem. And some days are better than others. Sometimes I think I've got the problem solved - like when Allen told me how he set up his Echo console and I copied that and even gave it a little more oompf, it seemed like the problem was solved, and then one day I turned the computer on and it was almost as bad as ever. When I saw how much volume the Samson mic has I thought, there is something so wrong with my system, and I am so tired of it. The Samson is quite sensitive at -33 dB/pa, a lot more sensitive than any of the mics I've had, and more sensitive than most mics commonly used in VO. Not sure that's the answer though.

The fact that I can get full volume by shouting but not in a regular, well-projecting VO voice is a key bit of information. At its worst, this volume problem was much worse than that - I could shout and get clipping, but there was a volume "ceiling" of 50%. I don't have that ceiling anymore, which is a big improvement. But I should not have to work so hard to get decent volume.

A month or so ago, two saints from this board and I were IM-ing about this problem and ended up staying up all night working on it. It was not solved when the sun came up and I kept working on it throughout the day. One of the things I did was to remove the souped-up VGA card that actually has its own power supply, thinking that might be somehow hogging resources that should go to recording volume. Didn't make a difference. But I can't help thinking there is some kind of power bottleneck somewhere.

And yes, I know the volume settings of my software like the back of my hand, and I know where the gain settings are on the Symetrix and all the obvious stuff and a lot of not-so-obvious stuff. But if anybody has some new bright ideas please let me know!

Tom Greenlee · Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:36 pm Post subject:

This may be too simple of an answer, but please check the mic cord you are using. Some brands of mic cords use resistors that will either cause your recording volume to be way too low or sometimes so low that it is unusable. If you are using one of those mic cables, switch to a good quality mic cable that doesn't use resistors and you will have full volume. Again, it is the simple things that we sometimes overlook. Hope this is your problem because it is easily fixed with a new cord (resistorless).
_________________
TG2

"Communication without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant."

Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC
Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

mcm · Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject:

Tom, I will look into that. The problem is definitely lessened when I use the AT4060 mic which has its own, 7-pin cable and I'd always assumed the sensitivity of the mic was the variable. The regular mic cable I use for all the other mics is the one I've had from the beginning.

Guess it's time for Mogami. If this turns out to be the solution, you get a prize.

Tom Greenlee · Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject:

OH BOY!!!!!! What do I get??!!!! What do I get??!!!!!! I bet that's the problem......I'm 99.9% sure it is......so I'm banking on my prize! hahahahaha
_________________
TG2

"Communication without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant."

Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC
Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

donrandall · Guest

Mary - when I am recording, I turn down the pot on my mixer that controls playback volume. The reason? When turned up, it reduces the input level to my soundcard - not enough to be the dramatic problem that you describe, but enough to be noticeable. Of course that means I have to remember to turn it up again to listen - and then back down to record, failure to do that results in volume mismatch.

Are you routed through your mixer? If so, what I have mentioned may also be happening to you.

Tom Greenlee · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject:

MARY!!!!! Don't keep us hanging! What ended up being the problem????
I'm anxiously awaiting my mystery prize! Laugh

_________________
TG2

"Communication without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant."

Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC
Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

mcm · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:51 am Post subject:

As soon as I get the new cable in the mail I'll let you know. Hope it will be today.

If it isn't the cable you will probably wait a long time to find out the answer. I've been waiting 18 months.

mcm · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject:

And the answer is -

I still don't know. New Mogami Gold cable, low recording volume.

Also, I don't currently use a mixer, so that's not the issue.

The prize is still waiting. Frown

Tom Greenlee · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject:

OK.....I think you're making it up that the new cable didn't fix it, just so you don't have to give me my prize! hahahaha.....seriously, I'm sorry that didn't work. I can only imagine your frustration. Since you didn't actually need the new cable, I'll PM you my address and you can just send it to me....no sense cluttering up your place with excess clutter. Rolls Eyes

I will keep my eyes and ears open for similar problems and let you know when I discover something that may help.
_________________
TG2

"Communication without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant."

Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC
Former Commandant of the Marine Corps

Bill · Guest

I'm coming in late on this and gave the thread a fast read, but didnt see any mentione of the windows mixer. have you looked at the mixer in the systray? I know the proprietary software mixers are supposed to take precendence, but I have found the windows mixer sometimes has an influence. just a thought.

mcm · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject:

Bill · Guest

When you say it "isn't available" under Audition what exactly does that mean? it's still in the systray right? when you open it and go to recording what does the line input fader look like?

Couldn't hurt to try, right? I'm unfamiliar with the Echo card, I use Audition on this box, currently with the onboard soundchip, and I use the windows mixer to adjust things, actually have to have it bottomed out or I overdrive it (kinda opposite of your issue).

I have an M-Audio 2496 coming one of these days (if my friend can find the time to take it out of his set u Hobo Happy

and hope it will work smoothly, though I have heard of it not getting along with Avid video editing software, but, we'll see.

mcm · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject:

allensco · Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:23 am Post subject:

I've been following this thread since it started and I can't imagine what would be causing this problem. Doesn't make much sense to me. We know the mic cable isn't the problem. I keep thinking there's just not enough signal from the preamp getting to the Echo card. Maybe the 528E is having issues and not putting enough signal into the card ? Or the Echo card itself is having problems. Have you tried taking the Echo card out and using the sound card that came with the system? I'm sorry Mary, I haven't a clue.

On the matter of the Windows mixer, I still have access to my little Soundblaster card in Cool Edit and Sound Forge. But unless you're using the on-board sound or another device, the Echo card becomes the default sound device and it's mixer is accessible from it's own tool tray icon or program menu. When I click on my speaker icon in the tool tray, I get a Windows mixer. It has only ONE control, but it cannot be adjusted.

mcm · Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:55 am Post subject:

I think you're right Allen. If I crank the gain all the way up on the Symetrix I do get just about enough volume, but then I have all that noise, which has to be removed. Shouldn't I be able to record without doing that? I also have been playing with the Echo Mixer and nothing I do there seems to make any difference.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I did look them up once and the little Behringer mixer I used to use was slightly more powerful than the Symetrix. Maybe I just need a really powerful, low noise preamp.

I will worry about it when I get home from vacation.

Thank-you to all who puzzled over this with me.