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Benjamin Stovall · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: ISDN is dead

Just read an interesting blog post by George Whittam: http://eldorec.com/eldoblog/2011/12/13/isdn-ordering-hell-courtesy-of-verizon.html

If ISDN is on the way out, what's the method of choice for someone putting together a studio now?

Deirdre · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:14 am Post subject:

ISDN in places where you can get it.
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Chuck Davis · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:18 am Post subject:

Boy, what a frustrating drill that was. I worked with Howard for years...believe me..he LIVES on ISDN...all day, every day.

It's defiantly not dead yet....but time is growing shorter than most of us expected.

Going forward, I'd look into SC first...and then keep my ear to the ground for the other Voip devices/apps that are sure to follow.
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Benjamin Stovall · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:27 am Post subject:

Chuck, do you/have you use(d) Source-Connect? What is the performance like? It seems like over broadband it could work well sometimes, but get sketchy other times, unlike ISDN due to its dedicated line. Is that the case? Also, are customers open to using it when they might be more familiar with ISDN?

Chuck Davis · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:46 am Post subject:

It hasn't really caught on big-time quite yet Ben. I have a few clients that use it...mostly though I use SC when I'm recording Joe Cip for Hallmark Movie Channel stuff. It's a no brainer if you have the choice...no LD fee's.

As long as there isn't a ton of traffic on your connection it's rock solid and sounds every bit as good as ISDN. I even get away with using it on a wireless connection...but that's mostly luck and the fact that I'm sitting directly on top of the router that's one floor below.

George helped me tweak my studio on SC...and I did both of the demos recorded with Nancy W on SC as well. Check the Commercial and Broadcast Narration demos on my site and you'll get an idea of the quality.
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Benjamin Stovall · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject:

They sound amazing Chuck! (Your VO skills probably helped some too...) Smile

I'm going to look into this for sure. If I can get ISDN I think I'll still do that, but if I can use SC whenever possible I could greatly reduce my overall monthy expenses.

Philip Banks · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject:

Since when has "Verizon sucks" equalled ISDN or anything else for that matter is dead?

I would guess that looking at the mess that is corporate America and corporate UK the MBA will die long before ISDN and Black and White TV.

Bruce · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject:

I think George's experience is just one bad (really bad) set of experiences with one company in LA. My tech experiences with Qwest ISDN in Phoenix and Portland have been just fine.

Too many big companies (broadcasters, etc.) still use and rely on ISDN for the phone companies to shut it down anytime soon. When something viable, reliable, and decently priced comes along, then you can start the death watch for ISDN. But that hasn't shown up yet.

B
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georgethetech · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject:

Not dead, it just smells funny...
I am involved in at least one ISDN installation a month, and it almost never goes to plan. If you need it, you need it, there is no substitute in the eyes of the major TV networks. SC sounds better, is cheaper, and is portable, but can't talk directly to ISDN.
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Rick Riley · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject:

I believe this article has been posted before, but if you haven't seen it, it's well worth the read...

November 25, 2011
Beau Weaver says:

Sorry, no…..In the realm of national television work in NYC and LA, ISDN is not going away.

However, the difficulty of getting ISDN installed is more than anecdotal. I have ordered ISDN installations at least eight times. The last few times, the phone company here in Los Angeles swore to me that they did not have ISDN service. I told them, “um, yes you do, because I have current service with you in two locations.” They still claimed it did not exist, even when I gave them my account numbers. On my last studio move I did manage to get the service installed. I called Dave Immer at Digifon http://www.digifon.com and paid him a consulting fee to order the service, oversee it’s installation and test it. It was worth it! I suggest that if you are having difficulty getting service, call Dave. Service may in fact be available, but they first six levels of customer service reps you get to may not know this. Dave has some kind of secret mojo. He know where bodies are buried. He may be able to get it done for you. So, don’t give up until Dave tells you it is impossible.

I keep hearing that ISDN is going away. Not in the world of national commercials, network promos and trailers, and work done by major commercial recording studios and post production houses in Los Angeles and New York. Here, it is well established, with a huge installed base of transceivers.

I have a Source-Connect license, but only use it when on the road, to connect to a bridge service (Digifon, Out of Hear, Ednet) connecting to ISDN connected clients.
I only ever done one direct Source-Connect session. For IP audio connection, I actually prefer the PC based AudioTX Communicator, which requires much less bandwidth. On the road, I don’t usually find a robust enough internet connection to keep a S-C session free of dropouts. AudioTX can only needs about half the upstream bandwidth S-C requires, and can be adjusted to adapt to crappier connections.

One of the other things you need to know is that for voice talent who might aspire to work with the networks, Source-Connect and other IP connections are simply not going to be allowed into the broadcast networks, now or ever, their engineers emphatically tell me! The network IT departments will simply not allow an IP connection (internet) into their proprietary post production network, period. It does not matter what kind of firewall is offered. No go. Not gonna happen. ISDN does not use the public internet. It is a closed, switched analog system that cannot under any circumstances breach the Networks internal security. We have had the same response from some of the big post houses here. Production networks simply do not get a connection to the public internet.

If you are working with smaller, regional production companies, you might find them more receptive to IP Audio. But in New York and Los Angeles, ISDN is still King, and I have seen no evidence whatsoever of this changing.

George Whittam is right to urge you to have an alternative. I always maintain several backup methods of getting audio to clients. But I am still convinced that the only people who say ISDN is “on it’s way out” are folks who don’t want to make the investment in the transceiver. But there is a less capital intensive way to do ISDN from your home studio.

If you have a Source-Connect or AudioTX license, you can most certainly advertise yourself as “ISDN ready” simply by using Out of Hear http://www.outofhear.com or, as mentioned earlier, Digifon,as a bridge service. That is to say, you connect to the bridge via Source-Connect over IP, and the advertising agency client connects to the bridge via ISDN. The only drawback is a little more latency (delay). Yes, there is a fee for the bridge…..but you are saving the cost of the ISDN codec and connection charges, and you get the added value of the tech support of Steve or Dave….so it is actually quite reasonable.

Beau Weaver
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Chuck Davis · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject:

After this week I do agree when it comes to SC audio quality,

On Friday Joe sent me a batch of Hallmark tags that he wanted me to sweeten and deliver. AIF 24/48...on my end sounded every bit as good as the stuff we do on SC,

Of course these ears are 53....they have listened to and mastered some pretty good stuff. Smile

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heyguido · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:02 am Post subject:

Thanks, Rick, for posting Beau's analysis of the ISDN question.

He's right. Those who use ISDN at the highest levels of our business use it for a reason. It's a secure, private connection. It's high quality. And for those at the network or production house level, it's a minor cost compared to revenue generated. For this reason alone, it's not going away any time soon.

For those of us who speak for a living, the cost/benefit ratio is a little different. Some of us can't justify the expense. For others, it's an essential tool that brings us business we wouldn't otherwise get. Just ask Rick, who just got his first ISDN gig on the strength of his newly-acquired rig.

Yes, it's possible to work, and even make a living without ISDN. Many do. And SC and other methods are growing in popularity and ubiquity. Bridging services can help make ISDN gigs available to those who don't yet have it. But don't count ISDN out yet. Not by a long shot.....
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anthonyVO · 14th Avenue Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 1470 Location: NYC

I use EDNet for ISDN service. It costs more, but because they operate as a CLEC (competitive local exchange carrier) the phone company is under strict public utility rules to respond quickly to installations and repairs or be subject to heavy fines and other sanctions.

In short, EDNet has way more influence over the phone company because of their unique position than I - or any other individual consumer - does.

Finally, I've never used SC. Why? Nobody has asked for it.

-Anthony

EDIT: I agree with Philip. I worked for a large, well-known phone company and many of the decisions are made in the interest of the shareholders. ISDN as the majority of Vz employees know it, is dead. Why? Because they only knew it as an internet service and it was "replaced" by DSL in their minds. They have no clue about what "we" use it for. As a matter of fact, the ISDN department for said company in NJ consists of about two people. Good luck with that.

Benjamin Stovall · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject:

The idea of bridging to ISDN through SC sounds intriguing. I only worry about the added latency. How bad might it be I wonder?

Chuck Davis · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject:

One advantage that ISDN has over SC is the ease and speed of hookup. To Bridge to ISDN the SC user has to place the call to the bridge then the bridge hooks up to the ISDN studio.

This means you're calling the client studio rather than the other way around and then billing them for the bridge fee...or eatting all or a portion of it.

I've never used the bridge...I have ISDN. It seems like a PITA replacement if you're going to use it that way.
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