VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[captain54]

after about a month, this has been a real roller coaster.. I dig the vibe of this mic, and have booked auditions from it, but overall I'm not what I feel is close to being comfortable with this mic.. Not only that, a recent client recently had an issue with my files being "noisy".. Which is a complaint I've never had as far back as I can remember..

I'm running it thru a FETHEAD and an Mbox Mini 3, with the gain on the Mbox around 2:00. so almost 3/4 up.. My noise floor is -60 to -65db.. All the switches on the back of the Shure are flat.. Normalizing @ -1.0, Software Eq thru TW.. HiPass @ 80hz, bump @ 100hz, cut @ 500 hz, a 5db bump for presence @1780 hz with a tight Q factor, and another very small bump @ 5000hz.. finishing it off with a RVox gate/expander/comp.. average gate setting with about -2db of makeup gain.. Unfortunately I feel I might be using the comp to make up gain

about 6 inches or so from the mic.. natural conversational reads seem difficult.. the mic seems at best when you are cranking it out.. maybe its the wrong mic for me.. I'm not sure... it seems like any slight variation in delivery and the waveform is all over the place.

I tried to duplicate what I sent to the client.. they requested 24bit. 44hz stereo.... I'm willing to take all and any criticism and start from scratch if need be, and dump this mic, if need be.. thanks all in advance

https://soundcloud.com/captain54/captain54-sm7b-test
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Lee Kanne
www.leekanne.com

[Bish]

[vkuehn]

[captain54]

thanks fellas.. another listen please at your convenience... completely unprocessed.. a little rough editing but you get the idea...

https://soundcloud.com/captain54/captain54-shure-sm7b

unprocessed.. gaps between sentences..

https://soundcloud.com/captain54/captain54-shure-sm7b-1
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Lee Kanne
www.leekanne.com

[vkuehn]

I just measured your second recording and again came up with unhappy numbers. A noise level of -26 to -32.

Yes, your noise level is -50 something compared to zero full-scale.... but your program content is 21 to 26 dB below zero full-scale.... so "signal-to-noise ratio" is -26 to -32.

I would like to get my hands on 10 to 15 seconds of un-interrupted room noise + system noise to see if there are any hints as to who the bad-actor is causing the elevated noise.

[captain54]

[Bish]

Well, I don't know the actual figures, but to me the unprocessed sounded much better. Listening back-to-back, I really prefer the unprocessed (but that's probably me). As far as the noise goes, it was far better (again, with the caveat that I'm listening on room monitors and prefer the lack of audible processing).

Obviously, the gaps in the original are dead quiet because of the gate, and if I crank up the volume on the unprocessed there is some to hear, but to my ears, it's far better than the noise in the original. Though, hearing noise cut in and out makes it more noticeable.

I wonder what the numbers are....

Hmmm... I just seen the last post and am in a quandry. I downloaded the unprocessed file and stuck it into SoundStudio. Agreed, I'm seeing the noise at around a bit better than -50dB, but the content is jogging along nicely at -6dB, peaking all the way up to 0dB on occasion, giving a reasonably healthy s/n ratio. This discrepancy is probably because of a difference in measurement methodology.
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[captain54]

discrepancy indeed. When I record a bit of audio and jog along the -3db range, and leave a :20 gap afterwards, then normalize the whole shebang @ 0db., TW telling me my noise floor is -65db.
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Lee Kanne
www.leekanne.com

[Bish]

OK... for what it's worth your ears should scream at you if you're listening to something with a 30dB s/n ratio. Sometimes numbers dictate what we think... these samples are obviously NOT suffering from a 30dB s/n ratio.... and your room does not have -25 to -35dB noise floor.

I hate it when dB theory/measurement comes up in these threads. It becomes a bear-pit of idiosyncratic measurements and weird DAW labels and implementation (everyone tries to over-simplify). I suggest everyone read the Wikipedia info. I used to teach this crap and the information there is pretty good.

Seriously... I don't particularly want to get into a discussion about dB theory here... but use your ears. Remember that a logarithmic scale is used when working with dB notation, so a relatively small number change (say, the difference between -50 and -32dB) is actually large difference.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[captain54]

Audio is relative ..Either way...by, or without the numbers. Two sets of ears listening back on different systems in different rooms are going to hear two different things. Some weep when they hear Pavarotti, some yawn.. Some love Lil Wayne and some hate Kanye West. I can't hear a big difference between the latter two, personally

The point is same room, recording for years with not very expensive mics. Rode Nt1, At 2035, Mxl v88, Sp C1, At 2020. I manage to stay consistently booked never a peep about noise in my recordings. All of a sudden I jump on a horse of a different breed and Im in doo-doo. Go figure
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Lee Kanne
www.leekanne.com

[vkuehn]

I think we are all ready to pretty well put this one to bed. I came in from yard work, disconnected my downstairs kybd-mouse-mon and went up into the studio where I have The Bigger Screen and the studio monitors.

I am the first to admit that I measure different than many people. That is my effort to hold myself to tough, tough standards so don't get too up-tight about my analysis.

Even under my mean-as-hell methodology you have a noise level that is actually 51 dB below "program content"

Taking your 15 second room noise sample and "normalizing" it up to peaks maybe 5 dB below full scale and listening, I don't hear room, I don't hear street, I hear what appears to be 'internal" noise. When I graph out the spectrum of the noise there are spikes at 60, 120, 150 and 180 hz. Big surprise, right? If you unplugged your mic and plugged in a "loading resistor" we would know how much of that is in the room and how much is equipment circuit generated. You can go nuts worrying about things like that.

Now that I have cranked up the monitors and stuck my head about half-way through the speaker cone, I can't HEAR a noise that I expect a client to be unhappy about. Maybe the client has a bad hearing-aid?

Even in your final track which you indicated has no processing, the gaps between words a phrases are quiet enough that it sounds gated to my ear. Some teckies may love that affect. It kind of puzzles and faintly distracts me.... but I'm not your client.

I think I would slip the mic in on a few more clients and see what they say. Maybe the mic is "too good". Some us expect voice to have some texture, some wrinkles, some visible pores, and this mic.... covers them over?

Have a great weekend!

[georgethetech]

This noise floor topic comes up so often, I made this.
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[Bish]

... and you made it simple, clear and easy to understand. For all practical purposes, this will give a meaningful measurement of what's important.

Thanks George.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[heyguido]

Late to this thread.... I'm on vacation....

Noticed a couple of things I'll mention.

You say you're working the sm7 from about 6 inches.... Get closer. If you were to pull off that big foam cup of a windscreen, you'd find that the diaphragm is actually much further back in the body than you might think. Secondly, you'll get the benefit of the proximity effect, which will fill out your sound a bit, and reduce your need for additional gain just a tad.

Sounds like you may have started from a set of processing presets you used previously with other mics. Begin again from scratch (after noting those presets, so you can recreate them if you need them again), adding a little at a time, til you're happy with the sound. Start with the gain, first at the FetHead, then the mbox, then eq, etc.... Building until you reach the sound you're looking for. In general, I'd recommend avoiding compression and gating unless absolutely necessary, as these are most often applied in post by the producer.

Lastly, vkuehn noted spikes at 60, 120, and 180. That sounds like ac to me. Check to be sure you haven't inadvertently routed your mic or interface cables near your power sources, and look for other electrical culprits that could be contributing hum, like ceiling fans in adjacent rooms and that pesky refrigerator. And switch out the mic cable if you've got spares.... All it takes is one good tug or bend to send a previously good cable to the bin. Same goes for the link between the FetHead and the interface.

Disclaimer: I haven't listened critically to your files, as I don't have the benefit of my usual HK studio monitors at this mountain cabin, just a set of Sony cans I use for recording from the road.

Don't sell it yet. The sm7 is a workhorse, and, for most of us, a keeper. It is a different animal from the condensers you're used to, and might take a little while to adjust to.

Hope I've been helpful.
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Don Brookshire
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[vkuehn]