VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[jrodriguez315]

Do the Internet Jock members know what the minimum requirements are to sign up as a talent?
_________________
Joe Rodriguez, Bilingual Voice Actor | The Voiceover Thespian Blog

[VO-Guy]

Email Bob tell him you'd like to join. He doesn't sign everybody, depends on how many voices he has that are simular and whether he's looking for any new talent. He keeps the roster to a certain number of male and female talent.

[audio'connell]

Everybody has to make their way in life however they like. So if someone wants to do spots cheap...so be it.

But lowball price companies like internet jock, reputable as they may be (and that is no small thing) devalue the voice over market...plan and simple. It’s bad for the industry when talent that should be getting significantly higher fees (than those being charged by low priced companies) simply devalue their worth and those who do the same work by doing it for less.

If folks are strapped and have to put food on the table...I quibble not.

I find fault with folks who can and should get more but settle. If we settle for less we become worth less and therefore shouldn't ever complain about crappy fees. Such devaluing chips away at the foundation of non-union voice talent at a time when the voice unions seem to be at a dangerous cross road. What happens when the unions fall? It’s a buyers market and what is considered lowballing today will seem extravagant in that future scenario.

Do other industries do it (lowball/devalue)? Sure, there are lowball lawyers, architects, tons of examples. But it reflects poorly on their industry and on ours.

But for supporters of lowball pricing...fear not, my opinion ain't gonna change the process.

It’s a shame to watch talented people occasionally shoot themselves in the foot...but sometimes I have to watch where I'm aiming as well.
_________________
- Peter
audioconnell Voice Over Talent
Your friendly, neighborhood voice over talent

[VO-Guy]

[Jowillie]

Peter,
Your opinions are just and you are blessed if you deserve and get the value of your services.
However, I pay talent for four CableTV ad groups, some of which are very small, as well as several small radio groups.
These clients cannot pay but a minimal amount and we most often have to build it in the schedule cost (not really desirable business).
This market is real, it's there, and it's viable. If you don't want to participate, choose not too. That is fine.
Belive me, when we do a big budget, focus-group researched multi-media campaign or audio/video narrative, we do pay the top going rate because the client expects to get what he pays for.
Those of you on this forum that have done work, or will do work for us--thank you--these small, everyday businesses thank you....and.....
your check is in the mail!
_________________
Wild Willie Edwards
www.hometowntvtoday.com
http://vomictest.blogspot.com

[Chuck Davis]

Just my two cents on Internet Jock. When I I first started out a few years back I contacted Bob and was signed onto the service. I told myself that even if the rates were low it would be good experience for a year or so.
Bob treated me with total respect and sent lots of work my way. Checks arrived in timely fashion, communication was always good and very freindly both via email and on the phone. His client base is mostly smaller market radio and cable. Low exposure...mostly very short-term use.

I left after that first year or so, explaining to Bob that since I was charging all of my clients substantially more than his rate, it would be a bad thing for them to find out they could hire me thru IJ for his low rate.
I left on very good terms with the invitation to come back any time.

Bottom line. If you're starting out, want the experience, the potential of a very active workflow and would like to deal with a very straight up organization. Do it.

Bonus...you get to deal with Russ when Bob's on vay-cay.

[audio'connell]

Look, I could get into a longer dissertation on this but I’m pretty sure everybody gets my point; this topic often just hits too close to home sometimes for folks or it’s a reality we’d rather not face…or we’ve got more enjoyable things to do on your weekend…take your pick!

• If you NEED the money no matter the fee, take it.
• If you have the option of sticking to a more universal fee structure, do it. To do otherwise devalues the fee structure for everyone else and devalues the worth of the voice over talent industry ($25 for a thirty second spot is WELL under the rate someone should be paid for any broadcast or cable commercial. If one doesn’t “get” that, debating it further won’t help)
• Companies that promote lowballing encourage companies to accept a standard of lower fees. If the fees structure were higher, companies would pay the going market rate. Because of the lowballers, the going market rate is all over the road and companies exploit that making voice over talent do double or triple the work to make their normal going rate. Again, not good for the industry.
• Internet Jock is not the only company doing this. And it seems that they treat people very well there. Great. It’s a good thing. But lowballing is lowballing no matter how professionally people are treated and I think lowballing is VERY BAD and to regularly participate in it if you can otherwise afford not to is very bad for you own business and very bad for our business overall.
• If we don’t establish our own pricing integrity, few will value our talents no matter how great we all are (that includes the talent on sites like Internet Jocks); we cannot devalue our own professional worth and expect respectable pricing to be paid by clients.
_________________
- Peter
audioconnell Voice Over Talent
Your friendly, neighborhood voice over talent

[Drew]

Well, I was going to head to church today. But I've gotten my sermon for the week. And by my association with IJ it's apparent, at least in some minds, my cohorts and I are on the path to hell and we're taking the rest of you with us. Here's my response: Focus on how you run your business, and worry not about how we may run ours. Each of us takes his or own path to the Emerald City. Pardon me if I elect not to not to saddle up on such a 'high horse'.
_________________
www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald.

[Chuck Davis]

Peter,

I totally agree with your argument in terms of the bargan/lowball companys bringing the value of some VO's down. I think you have to look at the markets they serve. If it weren't for the the IJ's of the world, the local cable co's wold be using "in house talent"...(receptionist/AE's) for their VO work. This at least provides an avenue for newbie VO's to get a leg up and some experience. As I did..most will graduate and move on. Some will stay having reached a comfortable level...or simply because that's as far as they're able to go...no slight intended.

To rail too much against the fact that these guys exist with the business model they're working with is similar to complaining about Wal-Mart.
There's a market...they serve it. New paradigm. Move on.

Chuck D

[audio'connell]

Drew: Just for the record, I don't think you're going to hell nor is it my desire to direct you or anyone else there. I think your talent has greater value than all that....which were the point of my posts. I'm free to offer my thoughts (which I think are well thought out, direct and accurate as befits a man of my stature....you know, from high atop my horse) and you are free to disagree, no harm in that.

Chuck: I've thought about the WalMart model through all this so your observation made me smile. The VO biz is NOT immune to the low price, commodity based forumlas that have enveloped many industries; heck its a simple template to execute and profit off of...I get that.

But the difference re Wal Mart (and maybe this is just me) is that what voiceover crafts/creates is customized and that hopefully makes a big enough unique statement that clients will respect our collective talents by paying reasonable fees. We've all had to deal with negotiations on fees but the industry is harmed (again, my opinion here) when the fees become so low that one could make as much doing voiceovers as they could if they had a paper route.

This is a paradigm shift and you are further correct that railing against this business practice won't make them disappear. But the next shift will come when software can reproduce the human voice so well that voice talents really won't be necessary...unless we all work to establish a strong value for our services.

Lowballing is simply bad for our business in the short and long term.
_________________
- Peter
audioconnell Voice Over Talent
Your friendly, neighborhood voice over talent

[Deirdre]

Look at it this way--

A carpenter learns his skills then hones his craft.
He needs to make a reputation for himself before the Vanderbilts will have him put an addition onto their mansion, so he'e willing to be hired by folks at Camp Cooper to build a studio, redos a kitchen, fix a floor.

As his craft/skill and reputation grow, he gets to charge more money WHEN HE WANTS TO.

When he can.

Same for us.
It isn't lowballing so much as it is the Farm team system for the Major Leagues.

Too many metaphors.
I'm in stream-of-consciousness mode.
_________________
DBCooperVO.com

[jrodriguez315]

Thisis an interesting discussion. As a newbie, I am hoping that Internet Jocks accepts me as a talent and sends me work. I would count myself among the lucky ones who actually get paid to do something they love. Of course, one day I'd like to be counted among the elite who have the sacks of money left by their door each day, but until then, I am greatful for any opportunity.
_________________
Joe Rodriguez, Bilingual Voice Actor | The Voiceover Thespian Blog

[Chuck Davis]

Peter - Think of it this way...we're working on being "Ethan Allan" furniture...
the lowballers are more like,,,"in the box..you assemble"...speaking quality.
You keep moving up. Just because you took "X" this week doesn't mean you can't negotiate "Y" next week. Let your results do the talking.
The playing field keeps changing. So must we.

Deeb. That's what I've been saying. As newbies it was great to be able to take part in that end of the system for as long as we needed to...as an educational/internship sort of situation. Good thing it's there.
Remember when we started in radio and you could get an overnight shift, or get your feet wet doing "God Squad" on Sunday morning? That's gone...sadly..along with community AM statons.
We've lost the foundation of broadcasting in the US that always fostered the next generation of on-air talent.
Where's the next "Howard" going to come from?
It's good at least there's some kind of "farm system" for VO!


Joe - Go for it. Keep asking questions. While we're all competing for the same dollar in the end, I'm sure you've noticed..we're totally supportive.

[Deirdre]