 |
VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!
Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
|
 Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I hate to be an "I told you so..." person, but I think in a previous discussion about these type of sites I mentioned the need for them to become similar to terrestrial agents - just in cyberspace.
The move toward 'commissions' is good, but again the scenario is incorrect - Why are these companies suddenly taking commissions from the talent instead of from the client? Or, to make it more eqitable - why not get commissions from both the talent and the client?
The business-plan of V123, Voices, or etc., has a lot of problems. These people are enteprueners - not business people. But if YOU - or even me - as talent will pay to get work - then so be it. A two-part commission is another form of this "pay to work" concept, but in this case - both parties are paying equally for work performed by the 'agent' or 'virtual agen's' online site.
There are more issues to which the current model business plan of these 'virtual agents' does not address, but hey I am just one voice in the crowd.
The rate issue is another item which would need be discussed at length, just not now.
Frank F
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bobsouer
Frequent Flyer
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 9882
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TGG wrote: | | If we audition for a spot that says $250 budget, and we as vo talent bid accordingly, there are still the people out there that are going to bid way below that rate. |
Tom,
I guess I'm one of the foolish ones.I keep my premium memberships with both Voice123.com and Voices.com because of the auditions available for jobs with higher budgets. And a fair amount of the time I get cast for those jobs, even though I nearly always bid at or near the top of the range posted. I just delete all of the auditions that have budgets of $100, or lower.
People who bid $50 for a job with a budget of $500 aren't going to get cast. The client set the budget at that level because they're greatest concern isn't the price. It's the quality of the read and the voice for which they're looking.
_________________
Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
ISDN, Source Connect, phone patch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tackerman
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 1741
Location: in the ether
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
--
Last edited by tackerman on Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Travis
Contributor IV
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Everyone.
(1) http://www.SayTheWords.com/VOMagic.mp3 ( repost.)
(2) Posted rates on the list are a bit on the low side. For a VO professional (someone who does this as their sole or primary source of income) you need to charge these kinds of rates, assuming you haven't set up some sort of "crank-them-out-for cheap" operation, which as an "artist", I have no interest in doing. -- If you charge less, you need to find some sort of additional income to live at other than poverty level.
(3) In my market, (Southern California) most of the agents insist on double scale, minimum.
_________________
Travis
www.VOTalent.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Greenlee
DC
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 686
Location: Divide, Colorado (above the clouds)
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | It's the quality of the read and the voice for which they're looking.
|
I agree with you Bob(mostly)  , but the reason I made that statement is .....If you've ever been to the VoiceLancer site, you can actually see the Talent who are bidding and how much they are bidding. VoiceLancer is much smaller in scale than v123.
I haven't seen more than 20 people at a time bid on a project. One in particular I remember, the budget was 75 - 85 dollars. Out of the 20 or so people that bid, there was actually someone that bid $10 and a couple people that bid $20 and a few that bid between 25 and 50 dollars....that leaves only a fraction of the bidders, bidding close to the stated budget. I thought to myself....these guys must be bottom of the barrel talent and willing to bid that low because maybe that will get them the work. So, I checked out their demos. Truth be told, these guys were not bad at all....sounded pretty damn good to be honest. As a client, if your doing a spot that you can get by with pretty damn good and not necessarily top of the line....why wouldn't you take the pretty damn good guy at 10 bucks instead of anyone any higher than that? I hope I made sense. That was why I made that statement. With voicelancer the percentage of low bidders that were pretty good, was very high.....With V123, which is a much larger scale operation and no one sees who is bidding or how much, and you get 250 to 300 people bidding, what percentage of those bidders are relatively decent talent bidding almost nothing? I think that just because a client is willing to pay 500 dollars for Talent doesn't mean he/she will if there is someone pretty good that will do it for 50. Why those talent are out there, I can't explain it, but they are. You are obviously very talented and I'm sure you only bid on projects that you know your voice is right for, therefore you stand a good chance of getting hired at the higher rate.....but I don't think every client knows exactly the particular voice they want and are willing to go with something a bit different maybe than originally conceived if it sounds good.
_________________
TG2
"Communication without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant."
Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC
Former Commandant of the Marine Corps |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Patricia Shanks
Contributor III
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: Being There (long and possibly pointless) |
|
|
Ah, to be more like Peter Sellers in Being There... How rosy our gardens would be.
V123 is another place "to be." The rate card and what the V123 clients want to pay - don't jive. We can't expect them to. The people running V123 probably can't begin to view the business from our perspective. Even if they wanted to. Why should they? Let's try to view it from their perspective for a moment. There. See?
Now, don't get me wrong. I believe the incongruity of the situation is absurd. And it would be demeaning... if I were to let it be demeaning. But I shall tend my little garden and watch it grow, while the incongruous city snorts and roars like the multi-headed dragon that it is around me. And, somehow, in hand-me-down suit and on borrowed time (as we all are), I shall continue to do my thing, until the doing is done.
As others have mentioned before (including my voice of reason, Travis), V123 gives us a place to practice with everything from bad copy that has to be read too quickly, to some rare good stuff. It gives us a place to be heard by clients who may or may not hire us in the future... but who may "Karma-cally" expand our client base. It is the online equivalent of joining some organization for networking purposes. People who join orgs hoping to get work are often disappointed. People who join with a "let's see where this goes - or not" attitude usually do better - at least psychologically. And V123 gives us all something to chew on here and in other forums. And more... (But, wait!...)
That said, this is NOT an endorsement for V123. If V123 wants to be the shining star in the online voice talent arena, they will tighten the screws of their thinking caps and determine ways to serve all interested parties, sans lip service. Thinking beyond the box is tough.
Control of your flat screen is now returned to you. I'm off to tend the garden.
_________________
Patricia Shanks
(949) 723-4473
patricia@patriciashanks.com
patriciashanks.com
shanksfortalking.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Greenlee
DC
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 686
Location: Divide, Colorado (above the clouds)
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's a healthy attitude Patricia, and I'm with you.....The sole purpose of my post was only an explanation of why I believe that even if v123 forces an increase in the rates, nothing will change as long as it still follows a bidding war format. The amount we see in the budget field may be higher, but I still think the amount the client will end up paying, is what they have been used to paying, because of the talent out there that are willing to let their services go for that amount. I'm not making a case for or against v123 directly.....I was just stating my opinion on the rate hike. I will personally maintain my membership with v123 for the same reasons you mentioned....not to mention the occasional work I DO get from there, and a couple of clients have been repeat business for me. So....all is well regardless of the hike. 
_________________
TG2
"Communication without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant."
Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC
Former Commandant of the Marine Corps |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobsouer
Frequent Flyer
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 9882
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Being There (long and possibly pointless) |
|
|
| Patricia Shanks wrote: | | ...I shall tend my little garden and watch it grow, while the incongruous city snorts and roars like the multi-headed dragon that it is around me. And, somehow, in hand-me-down suit and on borrowed time (as we all are), I shall continue to do my thing, until the doing is done. |
Patricia,
Very well said. I'm with you on the doing until it's done; but you'll have to tend the garden without me. As a kid, I spent too many hours on my knees weeding to enjoy that prospect! 
Tom, I understand what you're saying. And thank you for the kind comment. I just think a producer with a decent budget who is searching for the right voice is probably going to delete the bottom-feeder bid, just like we delete the bottom-feeder auditions. Again, I've already stated, I'm the foolish one. But, in my foolishness, I'm going to concentrate on the positive opportunities. And not worry about the bottom-feeders from either side of the equation.
_________________
Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
ISDN, Source Connect, phone patch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Greenlee
DC
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 686
Location: Divide, Colorado (above the clouds)
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bob.....Well said. Lol Amen and amen
_________________
TG2
"Communication without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant."
Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC
Former Commandant of the Marine Corps |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joniv
Contributor IV
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Windsor, CT
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just today I had an email from a gentleman who posted a listing on voice123 looking for someone to do narrations of :60 spots for his web site. I thought my bid of $75 was reasonable. He wrote me and told me that he loved my audition but had lots of people only asking $35. I can't help but wonder what kind of quality he'll get for that. I've heard some pretty scary stuff on voice123 that people call demos.
_________________
Joni Lambert
www.jonilambert.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mcm
Smart Kitteh
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 2600
Location: w. MA, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joniv wrote: | | Just today I had an email from a gentleman who posted a listing on voice123 looking for someone to do narrations of :60 spots for his web site. I thought my bid of $75 was reasonable. He wrote me and told me that he loved my audition but had lots of people only asking $35. I can't help but wonder what kind of quality he'll get for that. I've heard some pretty scary stuff on voice123 that people call demos. |
Joniv, see these wise words from Dan-O, then write that guy another email! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joniv
Contributor IV
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 128
Location: Windsor, CT
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LOVE IT! Thanks for sharing. I will do a followup with this guy.
_________________
Joni Lambert
www.jonilambert.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
donrandall
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I thought my bid of $75 was reasonable. He wrote me and told me that he loved my audition but had lots of people only asking $35. I can't help but wonder what kind of quality he'll get for that. |
If he goes out to buy some oats, does he prefer the higher priced oats that are higher quality and guaranteed fresh - - or does he prefer to save a nickel and buy oats that have already been run through the horse? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13016
Location: East Jesus, Maine
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Don-- you are too much and altogether too right.
Joni---It's a pretty good guess that his $35 bids were made by people he didn't want to work with-- otherwise why the correspondence with you?
Because you're clearly better.
Pony up, Jack.
Quality costs.
_________________
DBCooperVO.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Drew
King's Row
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1118
Location: Tumbleweed Junction, The Republic of North Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Deirdre wrote: | Don-- you are too much and altogether too right.
Joni---It's a pretty good guess that his $35 bids were made by people he didn't want to work with-- otherwise why the correspondence with you?
Because you're clearly better.
Pony up, Jack.
Quality costs. |
Damn Skippy that! Wasn't too long ago I got one of those. "We really like your voice, but we got bids for blah, blah, blah..."
I replied, "So, hire the low bidder. I'm not looking to build a highway for you...just some VO. But if you want good, you'll honor my bid."
Did I get the gig? No. But screw him anyway. A-hole.
_________________
www.voiceoverdrew.com
Skype: andrew.hadwal1
Although I have a full head of hair, I'm quite ribald. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
