VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Steve Knight]

I touched on this topic in another thread..

I wonder sometimes if the whole pre amp thing is a lot of hype..I currently have a UA-710 that I spent quite a few bucks on..while I agree it sounds better than the pre in my M-Audio fast track pro, I wonder if it was worth the extra $500?...would I have been better off just getting a Mackie with Onyx pre's?

[Bish]

Steve, I think you have answered your own question. You can tell the difference (an improvement) between the UA-710 and the M-Audio. This means that there is a quantifiable improvement in the audio chain. Now, will there be a difference between the UA-710 and the Onyx? Definitely... but will you be able to quantify it (and justify the additional expense)?

Pre-amps I have at the moment... dbx286a, M-Audio mobile, Apogee Duet, Mackie VLZ3. Now, the dbx has a flavour all of its own, the M-Audio just doesn't sound as good as I want it to... but to be honest, I'm now using the Mackie VLZ3 channel pre-amps on the 1202 board into the Duet interface (in bypass mode, so the pre-amps are disengaged)... and my old ears can't tell the difference between that and using the Duet's pre-amps on a direct connection (OK, there's a hair more noise using the mixer).

Personally, I think there's a slope of quality... but go too high and you run into the law of diminishing returns... that point is subjective and different for each set of ears. I've only been playing in the sub-$600 pre-amp arena. I am purposely avoiding the Avalons and Graces ... I can't afford more GAS!
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[Steve Knight]

I guess I'm having delayed buyers remorse...I've actually considered selling the 710 and just using a Mackie mixer..but it sounds like I'd be taking a step backwards

[Bish]

A step backwards? I'm guessing that will depend on your whole chain really. I use the Mackie pre-amps and not the Duet's... although the Duet's are supposedly better. I'm toying with the idea of getting the Blackjack Onyx as a back-up (and dumping the M-Audio which is my current backup). I like the Mackie preamps and am looking at the Onyx as a possible small improvement over the VLZ3 I'm currently using. Don't consider it a step backwards until you listen... the UA may be better on paper, or a better unit in general... but listening to the Onyx will be the only real test. Get the Blackjack to test ($149) and send it back if you're not happy.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[Lance Blair]

Which microphone are you using?

The mic needs to be matched to the right preamp.

I wouldn't lean towards using an SM7b with a tube preamp...but I might love it with a Grace. Similarly, I might like a TLM103 with a hefty dark preamp more than with an Onyx. I know a guy who sounded amazing with a 103 and a tube-driven TL 5051.

I use a somewhat dark supercardioid CAD E100s with a transformer-heavy preamp (ISA One). This pairing suits me...but I think the narrow pick up pattern of the E100s could be greatly enhanced by a high end 'wide field' preamp like one of the solid-state Avalons.

My clients like what they hear, so I'm good with that!
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[jsgilbert]

I had to chime in here. The differences in the performance or quality of mic pre's is often hard to tell just by listening. The parts inside (AD/DA, DAC) and the circuitry make a substantial difference.

As a producer, I like getting good, clean audio from the talent that hasn't been futzed with. Depending upon the application, I may have to run time-compression software, pitch up or down or otherwise mess with the audio.

For example, there are some mic-pre's that will cause the audio to get all glitchy when I might try applying a minimal amount of time compression; such as shaving off a second from a 60 second read to make a little bit of room for a musical intro and out. But other mic pre's may allow me to compress 5 seconds or more before it gets to the unusable part.

There are differences among mic pre's as to how they might handle clipping. Some that are very finicky when it comes to having background tasks running, etc. And some that introduce a bit of self-noise into the works. There are some that have circuitry designed to help defeat ground loop hum or issues with uneven electrical flow. Some are designed to color the voice and others designed to have as little effect as possible.

A highly respected friend and incredible engineer told me several years back, "Sure, you can find cheaper ways to do your recording, but nobody ever got into trouble for using an Avalon 737, Neumann U87 and Apogee Converter.

I enjoy being able to tell the client that I use the same equipment he/ she would find at the finest professional recording studios in the world.

The bar has certainly dropped, allowing for recordings to be made on iPads in parked cars. But there are also still plenty of clients that want to use professional studios., because nobody ever got into trouble for...
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