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More regurgitated swill (aka bad advice)

 
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Mike Harrison
M&M


Joined: 03 Nov 2007
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Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject: More regurgitated swill (aka bad advice) Reply with quote

Just when you think you've heard it all, here's a brief bit of advice for newcomers that's not to be missed:

http://www.piehole.ie/voiceover-blog-Ireland/2014/06/20/friday-voiceover-tip-fake-it-until-you-make-it/

This is currently a top contender for the "Professional Career From A Gum Machine Award."
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Scott Pollak
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, WTF?????
I read the whole thing and have no clue what he was saying. English obviously isn't his first language.
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Bob Bergen
CM


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every successful actor feels like they are a fraud. Every one. Very few are not insecure. I've quoted Michael J Fox many times from his autobiography, where he shares a story about collecting his umpteenth Emmy. As he walks down the aisle up to the stage, he's thinking to himself, "When are they going to realize I'm a total fraud and have no idea what I'm doing??" But if you look at his face, his body language, he's the definition of confidence.

He's faking it.

Faking it is not bad advice. A great actor does it daily. At the mic, camera, during interviews, etc. You don't have to feel confident. You have to appear like you are. Sometimes, we are confident. Most of the time, we fake it. Few are honest enough to admit this. Acting is faking it, but good acting is being believable in the process. When you walk into the room for that audition or job, you don't allow your nerves to get the better of you. You fake it. It's as much an acting performance as what you read in the script.

This was not bad advice. Pursuing prematurely is. But even then, faking it will get you far.
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Lance Blair
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Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 2281
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Bob.

One of the best books I've read in the past five years is this: http://www.powells.com/biblio/9780670038633

It's all about how instinct and intuition can be more important than standard teaching and critical thought - if, and only if, you are in tune your instinct and are disciplined to follow up on the signals it gives you.

Basically, we're all smart enough to figure things out if we truly pay attention. Even if we're not amazingly clever.

So yeah, fake it. You'll suss it out soon enough.

Think of all the aspiring VO talents that study and study and never make a mark...and then you see people that come out of nowhere, hit the ground running and make a career out of it. They're confident, don't hide from trying things out of their comfort zone, and pretty much fake their way to making it.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11075
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The piece of writing is based on the marketing tip "Drive traffic to your site with a blog". Most people say nothing, some say nothing quite well.

If you look online for Piehole's presentation on TV to the Dragons in The Dragon's Den a show in which business people look to wealthy investors for funding you will notice 2 things.

1 - The Piehole twosome had no idea what their business REALLY did.
2 - The "Dragons" had no idea what Piehole did or were planning to do either.

Three rules

Be a fake
Sell a fake
NEVER buy from a fake.
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Mike Harrison
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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
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Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I now have to admit, I stand enlightened.

Let me ask this, though (and quite seriously): at any time does faking it involve (or dance with) lying?
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
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Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No it SHOULDN'T but for so many, yes it DOES!

Confidence is fine whereas a Confidence Trick is not.

"Philip can you do this?"

"Yes, shouldn't be a problem at all"

"OK. Philip, have you ever actually done this?"

"No"

The distinction should be clear for all to see, hear and fully understand. Most VO self help books and coaching rely on readers and students not listening, not understanding and never asking specific questions requiring detailed specific answers and not letting go until they get them.
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Bob Bergen
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Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Harrison wrote:
Let me ask this, though (and quite seriously): at any time does faking it involve (or dance with) lying?


Sure!!!

Every time you act you are lying. Oh, it's possible I might use a product I'm advertising, but rarely. My job at the mic is to convince the listener. Acting is being truthful under imaginary circumstances. Or, lying well enough that the audience believes you. Master that and you might see your bookings go up!

You go to that audition after a huge fight with your spouse, or after getting rear ended at a stop sign. But the producers and buyers won't have a clue of your bad day, because you are lying/faking it regarding your mood.

Now, we all have our own ethics and morals we need to live by. Many, if not most actors have fudged their resume to look more impressive or to get a foot in the door somewhere. This I've never done, but I know some pretty successful celebs who got to where they are because they BS'd a bit on the journey.

But I think that blog was really talking about faking confidence. Confidence is like a magnet. Everyone wants to work with the confident. Confidence puts the buyer at ease. They trust confidence. But don't confuse confidence with cocky. Everyone wants to work with confident. No one wants cocky. If you can combine confidence with a lil humility, you have a winning combination.

I have seen some brilliant actors blow it because they lack the ability to fake the confidence. And, I've seen some who are brilliant at coming across confident when deep down they are beyond insecure. Some of the most insecure actors on the planet are those accepting Oscars, Emmys, etc. They are being honored for work they completed in some cases years earlier. They are "thanking The Academy" knowing that the next day they have to go back to the studio to complete that dog of a movie that might damage their career.

Here's where I fake it. I am probably one of the most painfully shy people in the world. I am not a fan of crowds, parties, etc. Though I'm a pretty regular guest at fan conventions like Comic Con, etc. If you've ever studied with me, shy is not something you probably see. I fake it. I am being paid to fake it. I am being paid to educate. It's not about my shyness. It's not about me. It's about being the best teacher I can be and guiding others. For all intents and purposes, I am playing the part of a teacher.

I've been blessed to have known and worked with a lot of successful actors, both on camera and vo. Many have been beyond generous when it came to sharing their techniques, challenges, goals, and strategies. And the faking of the confidence is a consistent factor in their success.

So, I think we are just talking semantics. But the bottom line is, yes, if an actor is doing their job well, they are lying convincingly.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11075
Location: Portgordon, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"All the magic on this show is performed by The Great Decepto and involves no camera tricks or special effects"

You've all seen and heard that at the start of every TV magic show and for some of the big illusions the statement is 100%, 24 carat, unedited ...UNTRUE, A LIE, BULLSH*T. That's showbiz!
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Lee Gordon
A Zillion


Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6864
Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Bergen wrote:

Every time you act you are lying.


Every time you act, you are pretending, which, I suppose, is a mild form of lying. But I think Mike's question has more to do with out and out falsehood. And that becomes a question of ethics. So, for example, if I am offered a lucrative job narrating a highly technical program containing lots of advanced physics, and the client asks, "can you do this," it's OK to say "yes," even if only to convince myself that I really can get through it. However, if the client says, "for this job, we'd really like the narrator to have a PhD in physics," and asks if I have one, it's NOT OK to say I do just to land the job.

That's why one paragraph in that blog really disturbed me: "Make yourself available and open to help voice actors around you. Positioning yourself as voice over guru will help you overcome any confidence issue you have because the voice artists who surround themselves with you feel like you have something important to give. Feeling appreciated builds self-confidence." It's one thing to try to bolster your confidence with "self-talk," but to do so by inflicting your own ignorance or other shortcomings upon others is unethical and wrong.

The other thing that looked a bit sketchy to me was the "Recruiting Voiceovers" pop-up box that asked, "Are you a professional or aspiring voiceover?" Well, which is it?
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Ed Fisher
DC


Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 605
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to get "too deep" into all of this....but

What is real?

Who are we?

The person who looks like crap just coming out of the shower? Or, are we the person in the photograph who, with good lighting and the right angle, looks pretty good? Or the pocked faced big pored nose that stares back at us in the harsh light as we wipe away the fog in the bathroom mirror?

I submit everyone starts out as a child being ignorant and incompetent and that visceral feeling of being not quite "good enough" stays with us to some degree for the rest of our lives. When we meet someone who convincingly acts totally secure and "sure" of themselves, the human impulse is to get on board with that reality.

In other words, I think appearing to be absolutely confident in what you are doing can go a long way in your interaction with others in convincing them that what you are doing, or your ideas are valuable.. To be successful, you HAVE to be a good actor. Others can "smell" any doubt on you and will avoid it like the plague. In that sense, I think we are all acting from the time we become aware that our personal welfare can be affected by the approval (or disapproval) of others.
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Last edited by Ed Fisher on Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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DeadDillo
Contributore Level V


Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 196
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip Banks wrote:
"You've all seen and heard that at the start of every TV magic show and for some of the big illusions the statement is 100%, 24 carat, unedited ...UNTRUE, A LIE, BULLSH*T. That's showbiz!


You mean...Criss Angel cant really walk on water or fly between two buildings??

Sarcastic

I honestly don't think the advice is all that bad, but there is a big difference between projecting an air of confidence and outright lying about your abilities.

As VO talent, we have a fiduciary responsibility to present ourselves as experts in the field. When I'm at the mic, I may be able to tell you all about thrombocytopenia refractory to transfusion support, but it doesn't mean I am qualified to administer anticoagulant therapy that needs an IVC filter.

They pay me to sound like an expert, not actually be one. Shocked
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Foog
DC


Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 608
Location: Upper Canuckistan

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip Banks wrote:
Confidence is fine whereas a Confidence Trick is not.


I so very much like that line. I'm going to steal it. (hmm, fakery is OK to a point, how are we on theft?)
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Rob Ellis
M&M


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2385
Location: Detroit

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....and the most important, and sometimes most difficult person to get to believe our lie, is ourselves
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Mike Harrison
M&M


Joined: 03 Nov 2007
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Location: Equidistant from New York City and Philadelphia, along the NJ Shore

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee Gordon wrote:
Bob Bergen wrote:

Every time you act you are lying.


Every time you act, you are pretending, which, I suppose, is a mild form of lying. But I think Mike's question has more to do with out and out falsehood. And that becomes a question of ethics... That's why one paragraph in that blog really disturbed me: "Make yourself available and open to help voice actors around you. Positioning yourself as voice over guru will help you overcome any confidence issue you have because the voice artists who surround themselves with you feel like you have something important to give. Feeling appreciated builds self-confidence." It's one thing to try to bolster your confidence with "self-talk," but to do so by inflicting your own ignorance or other shortcomings upon others is unethical and wrong.

DING! Exactamundo. Thanks, Lee.
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