VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Mike Harrison

Read FAQ #3

Comments?
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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

Jason Huggins · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject:

Well...it is on the web.

Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject:

Is this really an argument that needs to be started?
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Frank F · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject:

Lee Gordon · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:24 am Post subject:

Well, the rest of Producers Handy Handy provides useful information.
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Bish · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:00 am Post subject:

This is their opinion.
Some will agree... some will disagree.
It wasn't posted as an editorial or as a discussion point inviting comment or trying to prove anything one way or another.
Is it the nature of the internet that we seek out a fight with anyone who posts any form of opinion or makes a statement we disagree with?
Do non-union plumbers get upset when the union says "union plumbers are best"?
Producer's Handy Dandy is an entity that supports the use of union talent... whether from a perceived quality or political standpoint is irrelevant.
This is as controversial as Ford saying Ford cars are best.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

Lee Gordon · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:35 am Post subject:

ballenberg · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:20 am Post subject:

Jeff..I don't see an argument, at least not until now that I'm posting Wink

, but Mike asked for comments. So, I've got a comment. It says...

Mike Harrison · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:55 am Post subject:

By posting this, I sought neither an argument nor a fight; only to hear what others thought.

My opinion is that it shows a certain lack of professionalism... and class... to discredit the abilities and reliability of colleagues who choose – for whatever reason – not to join a union, which requires only that one has the ability to pay to play.

Yes, there are non-union talent who do less than optimal work and/or who may be late to sessions, or what have you. And... there are union talent of the same caliber.

An illustration of a similar nature: Some voice-over coaches proudly display the logo of VASTA (Voice and Speech Trainers Assoc.) on their websites. As of 2007, I learned first-hand, there were absolutely no qualifications required to join the organization; only the annual $80 subscription fee. When I mentioned this to someone very well-known in the voice-over community, this person said they'd been urged by someone else to join, but: "I never got around to it and that was one of the reasons...they ask for more qualifications when you get a card at PetCo."

Wink

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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject:

Tread lightly, kids. This subject can get very hostile, very quickly.
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Bish · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject:

Taking aside all questions of quality... there are good and bad in any "collection" (that point is well taken), I don't see that their statement is in any way unprofessional, no more than me saying that I think members of the following groups are more "professional":
a) VO-BB members
b) WoVO Professional members
c) Faffcampers

... but I actually do think they will provide a level of professionalism and quality to a customer, and I'm far more inclined to favour members of the aforementioned groups than not.

I have a number of agents... union, non-union and mixed. Why do the union agents differentiate? Is it because they're "unfrofessional"? No, it's because that's the market they choose to work in (and promote). Accepting that union membership does not guarantee absolute quality (yes... buying in to AFTRA used to be the norm)... it does show that a talent has jumped through some hoops, done some union work and paid a large initiation fee along with his dues. That, at least, shows some tangible commitment to the business and can be an instantly recognizable differentiator that some people value.

With respect Mike, pointing it out for comment and then opining that it's an unprofessional stand to take is NOT steering clear of argument... and comparing VASTA to SAG-AFTRA is as invalid a comparison as I can imagine.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

Yonie · CM Joined: 31 Aug 2011 Posts: 906

It is the opinion of people, and they have a right to that opinion. We all have a right to take it as is, or shove our beet-red, screaming faces at each other(!).

Spinning on the plumbing metaphor: I doubt the Union of Plungers would keep a member that fixes the sink by duct taping every inch of it. They'd also ensure that every guy and gal gets a decent wage for jobs well done.

All right, I'm already bored. Also craving beets now.

melissa eX · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject:

People, all of us, talk about what they've experienced. Many - most - people who work exclusively in the union world have no experience with anything outside it, be it talent or clients. The same thing goes for most working exclusively in the non-union world.

For those in the union world who don't work with non-union talent there are myriad reasons to believe union talent is better. Remember, they've worked with union talent from the days before the internet opened the industry up to everyone. Everyone's goal was to be union in those days and there was no mechanism for doing quality work outside of the union. There were no explainer videos, no eLearning - no home studios - NONE of the tons of new work that's available now. Is it short sighted to discount all of the non-union work and talent now? Maybe. But maybe they're simply focusing on their niche and ignoring the noise - as we're all taught to do - and what they've posted has been their experience. Their area is heavily union as has been pointed out. They only work with local talent and they're not widening their niche.

How many non-union agencies tout the fact they they've got quality non-union talent at cheap prices? That's their experience. They don't work with union talent - quality or otherwise.

Then there are the places that say "we have top union talent who'll work for non-union prices".

As for:

Mike Harrison · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject:

My apologies if it appeared I was off-base in any way. Sometimes I don't explain myself well enough. I do appreciate all the feedback, though.

The way I see it, this professional's "belief" is a recommendation, to anyone who visits his site (whether they use his services or not), that using non-union talent will be to their detriment simply because such talent didn't opt to join the union. The ridiculousness of that notion is illustrated by the idea that one hopes to be seen as a qualified instructor simply because they paid $80 to use a logo to suggest that. I certainly wouldn't want to be asked what qualified me to be a specialized instructor and the only answer I could give was that I paid a subscription fee.

This guy chooses to work only with union talent. Fine. That's really all he had to say. I've many times wanted to join and maybe, now that SAG/AFTRA have merged, things are different. But I remember calling AFTRA NY many years ago to inquire about joining, and the only requirement to get a card at that time was to pay the initiation fee. Don't get me wrong: I am not minimizing the abilities of union talent because of this; I'm certainly aware that most are excellent, and perhaps, too, most VASTA members are equally good at what they do. But if the only apparent requirement is paying a fee, that's not enough for someone to make a "professional" recommendation in my book.

I guess my being sick and tired of marketing and promotion ploys with little, if any, substance behind them has finally gotten to me. My view on the subject of this post was that it was in poor taste.

Carry on. Smile

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Mike
Male Voice Over Talent
I have taken leave of my sensors.

audio'connell · Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject:

If a fight does break out and the police are called, I'm blaming Kafer in the police report.

Only because Philip has an alibi.
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