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Ever so swift Mic Shootout
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Adric83
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Joined: 14 Jan 2013
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Positioned mic 3 almost identically to mic 2.

Mic 3 was much hotter with the same gain levels so had to ease off the gain (knob from about 10-11 o'clock to 9 o'clock) and adjust the clip volume for all 3, not 100% sure of the best way to do that (RMS, Peak volume, true peak, etc.) in Adobe Audition.

- Bill
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Adric83
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: How embarrassing... Reply with quote

Oh lawd...

Just listened back to the file I uploaded (had forgotten to hit save on the edit).
It now has the flub edited out.
Oh the shame of it... Embarrassed
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vkuehn
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adric83 wrote:


not 100% sure of the best way to do that (RMS, Peak volume, true peak, etc.) in Adobe Audition.

- Bill


I made a BOLD suggestion one time about using the various ways of setting the gain for a recording and ended up getting a bit of needed instructional "lecturing" from George Whittam. Laugh And George was right in his challenge of my 'applied technology". But for the purpose of these mic shoot-outs, I find the RMS choice to be the best. (I used to edit together recordings for a house-of-worship setting. A booming male voice followed by a squeaky female followed by a choir, etc. By adjusting the the RMS of each segment I ended up with some wave forms that looked like CRAP on the screen of Audition (Can you say CRAP when describing a h-o-w content?) but to the ear they sounded equally loud.

When you posted your first version of the shootout, I captured the audio and adjusted to the recordings via the RMS values and the seeming bassy-ness of the first mic disappeared under that scenario.

So what does that prove? Beats the CRAP out of me! Embarrassed (as Flip Wilson used to say: The devil made me do that!)
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Adric83
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vkuehn wrote:
So what does that prove? Beats the CRAP out of me! Embarrassed


Haha! Well you're well ahead of the tweaking game than where I'm at! I did that for the following clips I uploaded (the Aussie commercial and the adding of the THIRD mic) so hopefully the bias for loudness doesn't interfere now.

I reserve the right to plead complete ignorance and blame it all on someone else... That's how you make it big in the 'biz' right? Inoccent
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Ed Fisher
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion. Through Headphones.

Number 2 by a mile.

To me, both 1 and 3 sounded like you were recording with your head in a cardboard box. The small room and boominess were obvious. IMHO. Number 2 did not display the "small enclosed feel" and was much clearer and distinct to my aged ears.

So... one man's opinion. Worth exactly what you paid for it. Laugh
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Adric83
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutter Ash wrote:
To me, both 1 and 3 sounded like you were recording with your head in a cardboard box. The small room and boominess were obvious.


GASP!

My Shameful secret is revealed Embarrassed
Yes, I record in a booth that Harry Potter before becoming a wizard might consider a tight squeeze... I've treated it as best I know how, but that's another discussion for another thread!

Sadly if I have to vocalise above a certain volume, it shows its boxiness...

Good ears on YOU Clutter Ash!
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georgethetech
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me, lecturing, no...
RMS is a good way to match levels, indeed. I wonder what mic pre you use that requires a gain knob position of 9:00 to get adequate levels. Methinks your gain staging might be a wee off, but again, if it sounds good, if is good.
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Adric83
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

soundgun wrote:
I wonder what mic pre you use that requires a gain knob position of 9:00 to get adequate levels. Methinks your gain staging might be a wee off....


I'm using a Tone Beast TB-12 from Warm Audio, it's still a new-ish piece of kit for me so figuring out which transformers to go out through and so on are a work in progress, it also has output gain as well as input gain, which as you say, may be off. Output is at 12 o'clock for all tests, might have to re-think the staging though.
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vkuehn
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adric83 wrote:

Output is at 12 o'clock for all tests, might have to re-think the staging though.


I keep two mics in place, side by side. Comparable price and quality mics. Maybe I should put one in storage or sell it, but since it needs to be somewhere, I keep it mounted for now. So? The output level of mics is not identical. I record with both of them on, feeding them to their own track.

One track will always be a bit louder than the other if I keep the two channel-gain controls at identical settings. When I want to do an A/B comparison of the sound of the two mics, I find that I have to adjust the level of one track or the other to make them match before I can make a judgement on which mic I prefer for that particular read.

If you are going to record the output of Mic A, Mic B and Mic C and then present the recordings as a "Mic Shootout".... you corrupt the test if you keep the gain setting the same for all three recordings. That's fine. On our end we can make our own adjustments as we evaluate your recordings and report back.

But you make the final decision which mic you THINK sounds best. If you don't somehow get the volume level identical on the comparison recordings, your "Sounds Best" may be tilted a bit.

This issue of gain settings becomes really critical when you are listening to mics to judge the noise level that makes itself known between words and phrases.
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Adric83
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true.
My setup has been extremely basic so far, with only a single channel mic pre and interface, and one mic stand, so I haven't had the capability to setup all 3 at once and record identical comparison.

I'm looking into a mixer currently to have the ability to record more than one mic at once.
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Adric83
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's probably time to reveal the mics in question yes?

The mics in the first clip (the narration read), were:

Mic 1 - CAD e100s
Mic 2 - Sennheiser MKH416
Mic 3 - Rode NTG-3


For the second test, the Aussie commercial, the mics were:

Mic 1 - Rode NTG-3
Mic 2 - Sennheiser 416
Mic 3 - CAD e100s


I suspect that for my little booth, and my voice in particular, I'm leaning (as others have leaned also!) towards the 416.
I feel like the Rode might be better in a larger recording space, to which I don't have access for the foreseeable future.
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Bill Campbell
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the CAD with a gentle bass roll off starting at around 120hz.
I think that takes the booth sound out of it. A balanced sound.

In a bigger room, the CAD would sound very good as is.

The 416 sounds good. The CAD just a bit smoother above 4khz.

So, for me, I'd use the CAD for long form, and the 416 for commercial.

If I could only own one, I'd use the 416 because it's easier to read copy with it's front address profile.
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Adric83
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Bill!

I guess this "Ever so swift" mic shootout got muddled and complex, anything but swift really!

I think based on my available recording space it might be the 416. I'm going to do some more testing this week and possibly enlist Mr Whittam's services in essentially a "TELL ME WHICH MIC TO BUY" transaction.

Money well spent, it shall be!
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Frank F
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you choose to listen to one and only ONE of the many voices heard from in this thread? No offense intended toward George.

Your choices of microphones is and always will be a personal thing. Choose wisely.

I am not a big fan of the MKH 416 for VO, which is one reason I (until now) have not commented on or about this thread. With that thought in mind; my suggestion is to keep trying microphones. You have chosen microphones which are unique but also which contain muddy bottoms or are shrill - other than the shotgun which tends to sound compressed and which is why many VO people think it sounds better as it IS clearer in some respects due to confinement of the sound due to it's hyper-cardioid pattern.

Do not be in a hurry finding YOUR microphone. Take your time and remember it is an investment in your future, not a knee-jerk reaction.

Your recording space needs some "cleaning up" sound wise. Cleaning up could be fixed simply or expensively. Your choice. Do this and those microphones you chose to discard could sound a lot better. Again --- take your time and do it right.

Now, one last bit of advice: Have fun!

Frank F
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Adric83
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Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well chief among the reasons I want to enlist George is that his services range from booth tuning and sound solutions, since my booth is a crawl space under some stairs that's 5'5" tall, 4 feet wide and 3 feet deep, and not getting any bigger, with a fridge 3 feet from it that can't be moved, I'll need some serious help tuning it.

If you offer that service Frank, let's talk.
You mention you're not a fan of the 416; are there some you like that you could recommend I try? Vancouver has limited rental facilities, I even struggled to find the NTG-3.
A short list of examples you think might sound good or my voice would be appreciated.
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