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VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!
Where A.I. is a four-letter word.
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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 Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Just a quick note: The NT-1 and the U-87 (variations) are two different animals. One is a Golden apple and the other is not, you choose.
Although the frequency response graph looks nice, the test is listening to the two side by side (when possible) for a real-life comparison. One will be smooth and have the cut-through which is necessary for great VO and the other - not so much.
Frank F
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Lance Blair
M&M
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 2279
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Got a new NT1 this year and really like it. It's no U87, but it sounds good and doesn't pick up the whole room! Here's a bit I did this week for an art project in Scotland that is a send-up of voice overs and commercial culture. Chain is Yamaha MG16/4 into a Steinberg UR22 (which is also Yamaha, re-branded).
http://lanceblairvo.com/sharing/LanceBlair_NT1.wav
As you can hear, it's not bright like the NT1a. Brighter than the CAD E100s, with similar low self noise and tight pattern (but not as tight as the CAD, which is supercardioid) and a higher output than the CAD.
And they don't break, like the CADs.
And they're even cheaper.
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and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too! |
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sdaeley17
Club 300
Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 338
Location: Port Orchard, WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Sounds great, Lance! But do I detect a hint of bitterness?  Understandable, I am waiting on my SECOND replacement CAD, haha. (To be fair, the first replacement was lost in transit, not a technical issue.)
Here's a review I did of the Rode Nt1, going into the Yamaha AG03, direct to my iphone. (Another Yamaha, what a coeenk-ee-deenk!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFnzNplEqbM
For what it's worth, George said it compared quite favorably to my 416.
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Lance Blair
M&M
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 2279
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I am bitter. 
CAD has made excellent mics both expensive (VX2) and cheap (M179), and I think they pulled a fast one with this mic, cutting a lot of corners to get a good sound but zero reliability. And the low mic output has always been a concern to me. It was fun while it lasted!
It stinks that a "Made in America" mic should be a "Made for Repairs" mic.
Great review (which influenced me to buy it) and it does have that 416 focused sound.
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Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too! |
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Okay -- so after listening to enough raw, un-processed U87 "samples" and using my own cloned U87 -- I think I have an obseravation, and those that own and have worked with U87's let me know how far from the mark I am on this, OK?
It seems to me that the U87 is a very neutral sounding mic. It doesn't flatter or color anyone's voice. It doesn't sound like it's already been EQ'ed (like the TLM-102). It just faithfully reproduces exactly what it "hears".
Now, to me, when it hasn't had any EQ, compression, de-essing or anything done-- the samples I hear sound a bit thin, tinny, boring and bland. I'm left wondering how this microphone demands such a high price tag.
HOWEVER, if you put just a TINY touch of anything onto that voice track....magic happens.
I think this is the appeal. It's such a reliable, dependable sound that you can always throw processing onto and get stellar results. If you boost the mids by a certain amount, you instinctively can accurately predict what it'll sound like. It is predictable when you tweak the EQ, and you don't need to tweak much to get a great sound.
To me, it's like super high-grade tofu. Anyone can sound good on it, so it's a studio standard. What you put in is what you get out, and you don't have to sit around and tweak for hours to make it sound how you want it to.
Am I even anywhere close with my initial assessment?
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vkuehn
DC
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 688
Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DenaliDave wrote: | It seems to me that the U87 is a very neutral sounding mic. It doesn't flatter or color anyone's voice. It doesn't sound like it's already been EQ'ed
// s n i p //
Now, to me, when it hasn't had any EQ, compression, de-essing or anything done-- the samples I hear sound a bit thin, tinny, boring and bland. I'm left wondering how this microphone demands such a high price tag.
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Are your observations about listening a recording of yourself or a recording of someone else? Does it make someone else thin, tinny, boring and bland.... or just yourself? |
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kgenus
Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 889
Location: Greater NYC Area
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DenaliDave wrote: | | Am I even anywhere close with my initial assessment? |
Dave, when clients send specs to animation studios they usually request a U87 for a near mic and a U87 or a TLM103 for a far mic. Also, a solid state Class A preamp. It increases efficiency for the production (when audio is coming from different sources) as it can easily be matched.
I don't own a U87ai any longer, I sold it, and people still think my UMT70S is a U87. It sounds as you described--thin, boring and bland, but it can be made to sound stellar.
Another mic that comes up in specs for VO is the AT4050.
As for the NT1, the original NT1A was designed by Jim Williams, didn't have the harsh high end, was extremely quiet and responsible. I talk about this mic all the time because I own two and it's just a good lesson in business. After a successful product introduction, RODE intentionally changed the mic's circuit to increase revenue. The high-end components were replaced by low-end variations resulting in an inferior product. You can google the internet if you really want to read about it. If you can manage to find an original NT1A in good condition, you'll have one of the best NT1 series mics RODE has offered. It won't sound like the new NT1 any more than it will sound like the U87.
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| vkuehn wrote: | | DenaliDave wrote: | It seems to me that the U87 is a very neutral sounding mic. It doesn't flatter or color anyone's voice. It doesn't sound like it's already been EQ'ed
// s n i p //
Now, to me, when it hasn't had any EQ, compression, de-essing or anything done-- the samples I hear sound a bit thin, tinny, boring and bland. I'm left wondering how this microphone demands such a high price tag.
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Are your observations about listening a recording of yourself or a recording of someone else? Does it make someone else thin, tinny, boring and bland.... or just yourself? |
On other people since I don't have a U87 or U87ai. Every single unprocessed, raw recording sounds ... vanilla. Good quality vanilla, but vanilla.
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"The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve." - Buddha
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| kgenus wrote: | | DenaliDave wrote: | | Am I even anywhere close with my initial assessment? |
Dave, when clients send specs to animation studios they usually request a U87 for a near mic and a U87 or a TLM103 for a far mic. Also, a solid state Class A preamp. It increases efficiency for the production (when audio is coming from different sources) as it can easily be matched.
I don't own a U87ai any longer, I sold it, and people still think my UMT70S is a U87. It sounds as you described--thin, boring and bland, but it can be made to sound stellar.
Another mic that comes up in specs for VO is the AT4050.
As for the NT1, the original NT1A was designed by Jim Williams, didn't have the harsh high end, was extremely quiet and responsible. I talk about this mic all the time because I own two and it's just a good lesson in business. After a successful product introduction, RODE intentionally changed the mic's circuit to increase revenue. The high-end components were replaced by low-end variations resulting in an inferior product. You can google the internet if you really want to read about it. If you can manage to find an original NT1A in good condition, you'll have one of the best NT1 series mics RODE has offered. It won't sound like the new NT1 any more than it will sound like the U87. |
I heard that the Family Guy cast uses the TLM-193, anyone here ever used one?
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"The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve." - Buddha
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captain54
Lucky 700
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 744
Location: chicago
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| kgenus wrote: |
As for the NT1, the original NT1A was designed by Jim Williams, didn't have the harsh high end, was extremely quiet and responsible.
If you can manage to find an original NT1A in good condition, you'll have one of the best NT1 series mics RODE has offered. It won't sound like the new NT1 any more than it will sound like the U87. |
To clarify, when you say "original" are you talking about the NT 1 ? because the the NT 1A came after the NT 1.. the NT 1 mic body was sort of an enameled finish, and the NT 1A was brushed aluminum…
I had the enameled version, the NT 1, and sorry I got rid of it. sold for less than $100
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Lee Kanne
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Lance Blair
M&M
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 2279
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| kgenus wrote: |
Another mic that comes up in specs for VO is the AT4050.
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Interesting. I've always coveted this mic and enjoyed working with it. Early on I bought an AT4040: a good utility mic, but sibilant on all voices. The 4050 always sounded just right for my voice, and I like every sample I've heard from other voices.
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kgenus
Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 889
Location: Greater NYC Area
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| captain54 wrote: | To clarify, when you say "original" are you talking about the NT 1 ? because the the NT 1A came after the NT 1.. the NT 1 mic body was sort of an enameled finish, and the NT 1A was brushed aluminum…
I had the enameled version, the NT 1, and sorry I got rid of it. sold for less than $100 |
NT1, my apologies, I'm so used to typing NT1A it's an afterthought. The enameled version is the one... People still get rid of them unknowingly.
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kgenus
Seriously Devoted
Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 889
Location: Greater NYC Area
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| DenaliDave wrote: | | I heard that the Family Guy cast uses the TLM-193, anyone here ever used one? |
Yes, at HBO. "The Gentleman's Mic," he said. The engineer rubbed his nose as he lowered it. That room had walls that had changing plates for reverb. You turn the dial to the setting and 'the stuff' inside the walls moved around and changed. The dial was set to VO. Inside the control room was a 24-channel mixer with preamps that were slightly better than a Mackie routed into a stock Digi002R. I'll never forget the sound, I didn't like it, but before we began recording they said they wouldn't have time to process the audio due to the immediate deadline--they had me eat the mic and rolled off a bunch of lows.
On another occasion down the hall from the other studio was a medium sized screening room. In the booth was the same mic type, a TLM193 routed through a massive Neve console which spanned 4/5 of the width of the theatre it was in. You've seen the pictures of final film edits with the console in the back, theatre seats in front, right? That was an experience. I had to walk through a snaked-out maze of corridors to get to the booth which ended up being tucked in a corner just facing the right-rear side the theatre's screen. The walls were covered with red velvet theatre curtains, the floor may as well have been, too. It was posssssh. Beautiful red room, probably so they couldn't see you bleed when you screwed up during live work. Anyway, like I said earlier, an experience. That particular recording blew me away.
Most things I read are fourth grade level. I'm not typically required to read words like "enigmatic" and "vicissitude" with net/cable broadcasts, but HBO's style is a few grades more. It's definitely educated and upscale, so if you find yourself hired for HBO, Liev Schriber (who is basically a one take wonder) is your blueprint. When you hear these performances, which go against the grain, it's really incredible... and hard to turn the corner back to the norm.
Anyway, that's more than you asked, but it sums up my take and reference on the TLM193. The TLM193 is a no-hype, no-mojo mic, what goes in is what comes out. The Gentleman's Mic is apparently called that because many use it for, you guessed it, narrative tasks. It can be awful in one sense, it can be magic in another. But then again, you could say that about every mic.
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11048
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:53 am Post subject: |
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My flat as f*** U87 hears me whereas my MKH416 interprets me. People quite like the way I sound so the U87 is harmless. MKH416 is a Gay Hispanic hair dresser.
"Owkye girlfren'. Diss is wha' amma gonna to pour chew. Tross me! Chew'll lob eet! Don luck sow war it! Iss Pore fick!" |
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Philip Banks wrote: | My flat as f*** U87 hears me whereas my MKH416 interprets me. People quite like the way I sound so the U87 is harmless. MKH416 is a Gay Hispanic hair dresser.
"Owkye girlfren'. Diss is wha' amma gonna to pour chew. Tross me! Chew'll lob eet! Don luck sow war it! Iss Pore fick!" |
That's how I feel when I use the TLM-102. It is as if Neumann set some kind of internal EQ. From the frequency response, capsule, electronics -- everything, it has a very hyped, in-your-face-gritty-graininess to it. Almost an announcer, "big" sound to it.
I haven't really decided if I like it or not, as it doesn't sound like "me" if I was just sitting with you talking. It does sound like I'm using a fairly good mic though.
The best way I can describe it...it does to my voice what the RE-20 does to people. You can "hear" an RE-20. Well, you can "hear" the TLM-102. Maybe it's just my voice?
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