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HeatherMasters
Contributore Level V
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 158
Location: Alaska
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 Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:35 pm Post subject: explanation for a low recording signal on my Audient? |
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So, I noticed in my recording today, that my signal is recording at -30 to -35 RMS. Usually I record around -20 to -25.
I confess I don't know much about my equipment besides the basics, (though I am getting in with an audio engineer who is going to train me!)
but the only thing I can think of is that I turned my gain down the other day because I had a job with yelling. I've moved it back of course since then. Other than that, I don't think I've touched anything. I checked to make sure I didn't have the -10db on, and i even switched out the interface to make sure it's not my Audient. The volume sounds good in my headphones, it's just not processing into twisted wave with the right sound. I'm at a loss.
I would appreciate any suggestions!
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I just picked up an iD22. I've found the mixer software to be useless, none of the knobs seem to do anything, and half the time it won't launch with OSX El Capitan on either my Macbook Pro or Macbook Air.
Now, the gain? I'm not used to having to crank the gain knob so high. I contacted Audient about it, and they assured me it's fine -- the gain knob is quite different than what I'm used to. Harry over at their help desk was helpful:
| Quote: | | The gain pots are logarithmic which means that the gain ramps up very quick in the second half of the pots rotation meaning that although the knob looks like it is turned up quite high, there is still a lot more gain to go. iD22 has very quiet preamps so you don't need to worry about adding noise if you turn the gain up really high. For some applications of quiet sources, I have the gain pretty much full, yet the recording is still great sounding. Some other interfaces work in this way, others don't, so it might feel a bit weird to begin with if you are used to something else. |
If I have to, I'll even write down all the settings on the hardware if I'm going to need it to sound the "same" later on. When I've done longer books that take a while I'll write down notes specific for that project that relate to things like "gain at 43" or "gain at 5 o'clock" ...
I'm going to try recording into Logic later...as it seems I'll have even better results...according to the help desk
:thumbsup:
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HeatherMasters
Contributore Level V
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 158
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:46 am Post subject: |
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So I switched on my equipment this morning, adjusting nothing, and voila, my signal was back again, absolutely perfect. Weird.
Thanks for the info Dave, but for me, it wasn't a gain set problem, because I know the level I normally have it set to, and even when I turned my Audient all the way up to the max it was only recording at -22 RMS. So something was definitely not right...and yet, it somehow managed to fix itself.
Do these things sometimes just happen? A visit from the mischievous audio tech fairies?
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vkuehn
DC
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Posts: 688
Location: Vernon now calls Wisconsin home
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| DenaliDave wrote: |
Now, the gain? I'm not used to having to crank the gain knob so high. I contacted Audient about it, and they assured me it's fine -- the gain knob is quite different than what I'm used to. Harry over at their help desk was helpful:
| Quote: | | The gain pots are logarithmic which means that the gain ramps up very quick in the second half of the pots rotation meaning that although the knob looks like it is turned up quite high, there is still a lot more gain to go. iD22 has very quiet preamps so you don't need to worry about adding noise |
If I have to, I'll even write down all the settings on the hardware if I'm going to need it to sound the "same" later on. |
Ah yes, Harry at Audient. Such a British sounding name! And very courteous and helpful fellow.
The very broad-brush markings around the channel volume controls is my one ciriticism if the id22. I depend on accurate dial markings so I fed constant sound into the box for a while and changed the gain until I figured out where the actual "cross-over?" points were and now I have custom gain detent markings glued to the face of my Audient, and I went to Hobby Lobby and bought a set of clock hands for people who make custom clocks and I have little pointers extending out from the volume control knobs. So I now have repeatable settings at 20 marked locations per channel!!!
I had my audio cables and my power supply cable laced together for appearance sake. I didn't have reduced volume, I had some times when I had NO volume and was about ready to send the unit back for repair. I found that unplugging the power cable for a moment and re-inserting it would fix the problem. Then I noticed there was considerable tension on the power cable. So I unlaced the collect of wires. put some extra slack in the power cable so it wasn't pulling at an angle. Haven't had a dead spot or reduced gain in a long, long time. |
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Jason Huggins
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: In the souls of a million jeans
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Interestingly, I have had this happen multiple times. I sent a preamp back because I thought it (the preamp) was doing it, but then it happened a few more times over the year and a half or so I've had the iD22. I use an external preamp and totally bypass the iD22's preamp, yet it still occasionally drops or increases by a few dB. I couldn't never pinpoint what was causing it. Basically I just turn my preamp gain up a bit...then months later it is randomly too hot and I'll turn it down...then months later it randomly is lower than I expected. 99% of the time I don't touch my levels a single bit so I know for sure where they are supposed to be. Maybe I'll log my gain and resulting RMS levels every day for the next 6 months and see what appears  |
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Rob Ellis
M&M
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2385
Location: Detroit
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| If you're on a Mac I would suggest going to your Utilities folder and checking the settings in the Audio/MIDI folder. |
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HeatherMasters
Contributore Level V
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 158
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The very broad-brush markings around the channel volume controls is my one ciriticism if the id22. I depend on accurate dial markings so I fed constant sound into the box for a while and changed the gain until I figured out where the actual "cross-over?" points were and now I have custom gain detent markings glued to the face of my Audient, and I went to Hobby Lobby and bought a set of clock hands for people who make custom clocks and I have little pointers extending out from the volume control knobs. So I now have repeatable settings at 20 marked locations per channel!!! |
I love this! What a great idea, Thanks!
Jason, it's comforting in a way to know I'm not the only one.
Elwood, I didn't even know there was such a folder  so thanks. I'll be sure to add that to my list of things to check.
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Jason Huggins
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: In the souls of a million jeans
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| The iD22 doesn't actually allow any changes outside of its own software. When it is set as your system audio output it even disables your system volume so you can't change the computer output volume with the keyboard. So, all of the Audio/MIDI settings are grayed out and can't be changed. |
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georgethetech
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 1877
Location: Topanga, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Did the problem start with El Capitan I wonder?
Yes, the gain knob is calibrated such that almost full gets the best results, somewhat disconcerting at first but just trust your ears.
If only they did what SPL did with the Creon:
Note how it goes from 43dB gain to 60dB gain in a very short amount of rotation?
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HeatherMasters
Contributore Level V
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 158
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The iD22 doesn't actually allow any changes outside of its own software. When it is set as your system audio output it even disables your system volume so you can't change the computer output volume with the keyboard. So, all of the Audio/MIDI settings are grayed out and can't be changed. |
Thanks for that info. At least that's one less thing I can screw up on my end.
| Quote: | | Did the problem start with El Capitan I wonder? |
Well, I haven't upgraded to that yet, as I'm one of those people who waits forever in fear of all the bugs and mess that often come along with it.
| Quote: | | If only they did what SPL did with the Creon: |
Just when I am happy and thrilled with my new interface, you post a picture of that beautiful unit, and get me drooling over what I don't have! Those gain markings are perfect, and I just love the layout of the whole thing!
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Heather
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I was seriously considering this guy:
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"The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve." - Buddha
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Jason Huggins
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: In the souls of a million jeans
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| soundgun wrote: | | Did the problem start with El Capitan I wonder? |
I'm still on Mavericks, so nope on that. I find it very strange but it is never enough gain to really make a difference in recording and I've never noticed it happen during a session. I never turn it off...could that cause an issue? I just walk out of the studio at the end of the day and my computer goes to sleep eventually. iD22 has been on for 98% of the last year since I moved (and it was before that too). Is that bad? |
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Lance Blair
M&M
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 2279
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:35 am Post subject: |
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I was *this* close to buying a Creon instead of the Steinberg UR22 a few months ago. I love the UR22, but I think the Creon is going to be on my desk in a year or two. I decided to spend the money on ipDTL Tel instead. 
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sdaeley17
Club 300
Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 338
Location: Port Orchard, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I love me some interface speak!
I asked my audiobook friend about this very issue when I first got my id22. He said he always uses at least 75% for commercial/animation, and up to 90% for quieter audiobook reads, and I found this works well for me, too. Seems almost the same on the id14. I'm on Lion and Mavericks on my machines, so for once El Cap isn't the issue.
That creon is one sexy beast! Love the smaller form factor over the crimson, and I know a lot of reviewers have lauded SPL on their great labeling. (it's the little things, y'know?) Let us know if you get one, Lance! I'm sure you could offer some great insight!
Dave, I've seen the Roland at a few shops here (Roland is a Japanese company) and I can't help but feel like it's trying to catch up with the Apogee Duet and Babyface. It's still much larger than either of those units, and I personally don't like breakout cables/boxes, but if it's something you're interested in, why not give it a try?
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DenaliDave
Club 300
Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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The breakout box does remind people of the Apogee -- but it's actually a good idea.
You can leave the breakout box on your table and then take the interface out of the studio if you need to use it someplace else. it gives you flexibility on placement as well. You can place the main unit with the gain knob closer to you, and the breakout box someplace else.
What struck me:
| Quote: | | The Super UA uses a S1Lki DSP engine and a high resolution, audiophile-grade DAC that supports 2.8 MHz/1-bit DSD and 192 kHz/32-bit floating-point PCM playback with low-latency pro-studio performance. |
I'm interested in how that translates to quality...it seems though that after a certain point the gains in quality are so small that only someone with 20+ years of listening can discern anything.
Also, I don't think you can completely bypass the preamps in the Roland, that was the no. 1 reason I ditched the idea. Even with the Duet, it uses a "software emulated" bypass that still runs your signal through the circuitry of the built in pre-amps. Why use a nice external preamp if you are still going through the same electrical pathway?. The iD22 totally re-routes the externally amped signal into the DAC and into the computer. That was the selling point for me -- future expansion for a robust outboard signal chain down the road. I plan on being able to record more than spoken word. . .
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