VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

DenaliDave · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:58 pm Post subject: New interface test...

So I got myself the iD22 as well (seems to be pretty popular around here!). The main reason was because you can bypass the internal preamps 100%. I've heard that the preamps in the Audient are nothing to sneeze at themselves though.

Anyway, I was recording directly into Twisted Wave and noticing that I had to turn the gain up extremely high. I also noticed (and after conferring with Audient's help desk) that Audient recommends recording into Pro Tools or Logic. Logic has input/output volume controls which allowed me to back off the interface gains.

So, I decided to record a sample to see how it sounded:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xihkna7kcw6et4f/Logic%20Pro%20X%20iD22%20Bounce.wav?dl=0

If I wasn't so busy I'd do a side by side with my TLM-102. The CAD is being BAD. I pulled it out two days ago from its box, and the loud buzzing sound is worse than ever. I managed to get it somewhat under control a while back, but not this time. If I move my hand around the mic, the buzzing increases dramatically. The TLM, D87, and RE-20 do NOT exhibit this running through the same signal path, so it's the mic itself. Sad, as I really wanted to like the CAD.
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Dayo · Cinquecento Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 544 Location: UK

Dave

Sounds like your CAD is picking up RF. The other mics are just handling it much better. Do you have any wall wart power supplies nearby? Maybe for an LED light or something? If so, try unplugging them from the socket one by one and see if your buzz disappears. If you're lucky maybe you'll find the guilty one and then you can try and replace it with a medical grade one.

Best of luck

Colin
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DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:40 am Post subject:

Well, unless I myself am emitting RF...because when I get close to the mic the buzzing gets much worse. I put my hand inside an anti-static bag that sensitive electronics are shipped in, and it greatly reduced the buzzing sound as I moved my hand around the microphone. If I put the anti-static bag over the mic itself, the buzzing sound is also reduced.

I have a special "RF reducing & power conditioning" power strip in the room to specifically cut down on any bad RF bought from Sweetwater for recording studio use.

I'm using either Mogani Gold, or the highest RF shielded quad cables I can find, and also making sure none of them are coiled or crossing. I'm even using an in-line RF reducing filter that I *thought* was doing something months ago when I was last using the CAD.

It doesn't seem to matter where I set up the CAD or what I try, the buzzing sound is present. Before, it was an intermittent/hit or miss thing and now it's worse than ever and present at all times. I've done the process of elimination, even going as far as to shut down all wifi and cordless phones in my home. Nope. It's the mic itself.

It really bums me out, as I really wanted to like the mic. Honestly, I'm not the only one that seems to have problems with noise on the CAD e100s.

It seems that there simply is something wrong internally with the mic itself, and paying to have it shipped and fixed would probably cost me half the price of a new one. I'm moving on from the "CAD fad". I shouldn't have bought it anyway, and just put that money at a 416, as that seems to be a much better long-term studio investment.

In any case, I'm happy with the iD22. My only gripe is the lack of a power switch of some kind.
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Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2279 Location: Atlanta

Sounding good!

I didn't realize it was a 96/32 file. When I first looked at my spectral freq. display I thought "Wait, there's nothing over 10kHz here..." lol.

Now, is this with no HPF and no gate/expansion?

Then don't do anything...run with this and run 'till it's broken! Good stuff!

The CADs used to be good. I had an early one, but I did have RF issues with it now and then. I moved on to the newly designed Rode NT1. Nice all-around sound and self noise of 4.5 dBA - better than the CAD also because it has a much her output!
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Dayo · Cinquecento Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 544 Location: UK

DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject:

Lance,

Whoops! Yeah, the only thing I did to it was run a bit of EQ, with iZotope Nectar...I'm demoing it right now, trying to decide if its worth buying or not.

The TLM 102 by comparison sounds interesting. I noticed this before, but it stands out more predominantly now with the iD22. There's a ... "sound" to the TLM, sort of like how you can hear an raw RE-20, and know it instantly. The TLM has a sort of unnatural "processed" scoop or EQ to it. Maybe I have bad ears and this is that "shine" or "shimmer" people talk about. To me, it sounds like someone is EQing the mids and highs to make it sound more "present" ... but it just sounds to me like some kind of unnatural EQ. It doesn't sound warm or how I actually sound if I was standing or sitting in front of you. It sounds "announcer-like" to me.

I wonder if that's because it's a transformerless mic? I've heard people criticize the TLM series because of the electrical wizardry that Neumann has gone through to "simulate" tube and transformer mics.

Don't get me wrong -- it's not "bad" in that I hate it, or want to get rid of it...I just actually prefer this clone/knock off mic a little bit more. It sounds more natural on my voice, which I guess is what matters!

Running through the preamps on my ZOOM it wasn't quite as pronounced. I noticed it a bit more with the Apogee...it seems the better the preamp, the more the Neumann was able to display its character.
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DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:34 pm Post subject:

Dayo ~

Oh, I'm sure it is some kind of static/RF interference, but that doesn't negate the fact that the mic shouldn't be that sensitive. That to me tells me that something inside the mic isn't grounded properly or something.

Now, I know that I could be in an RF fire-storm and the RE-20 would simply shrug. It was designed to handle high RF situations with its humbuckers. The TLM 102 and the D87 clone I have? (esp. the clone) -- they don't pick up any RF at all.

The buzzing is rediculously loud, we're talking a noise floor going from -69 to -40db simply because of that mic. Cry

I think there's just a design/engineering problem with these mics. They might not have a connection inside that soldered well enough or using thick enough wire in places it needs. I mean, hey, the mic is only $500 new. . .

I might ask around and see if anyone local knows anything about microphone repair. I'm not going to throw it away, if I can figure out how to make it work or get it fixed for a reasonable price, I will.
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vkuehn · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:48 pm Post subject:

Dave I remember some earlier conversation about the CAD mic, but I don't remember everything suggested and everything tried. Have you tried recording with the HPF switch engaged, then the HPF switch OFF.

My memory of previous discussions by people owning this mic is that sometimes engaging the HPF switch in an effort to cut the noise level actually introduces the kind of crap you are describing instead of cutting it out.

Changing the topic a bit: in looking at the audio sample your provided with this thread, the noise level is pretty much down where we would like to have it, but nothing to brag about. I let Audition display a frequency chart on the room tone, and if you would use a HPF filter in your software to get rid of the signal that is below 90 hZ, you will lose a big part of that room noise/circuit noise.

DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:55 pm Post subject:

DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:03 pm Post subject:

vkuehn · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:49 pm Post subject:

I hate to suggest a test procedure that eats up some of your time, but let me share an observation on this issue of noise in that sub-audible region. I have taken audio files, and in addition to recording with every possible HPF filter turned on, then before doing any other editing, run the SEVERE HPF setting in Audition. Everything below 95 hZ has been hit by a brick wall!!!

Then do all your favorite things to "fluff up the flowers". Limiting, Compression. EQ. De-essing. De-clicking. Normalization. What ever your favorite audio processes include.

Then go back at the end of all this activity and do the Spectrum Analysis again and see how much LOW ENERGY content has been created by all these processes. Setting the HPF on your mic does not guarantee that you will not have a problem with low frequency trash in your finished file.

DenaliDave · Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:05 pm Post subject:

sdaeley17 · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:02 am Post subject:

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2279 Location: Atlanta

Seems CAD cut some serious corners to make a mic that sounds great but is unreliable. There's no way my mic should have sounded like it did after three and a half years - noisy and dull.

Now the "Made in America" tag for the CAD E100s is an embarrassment rather than a source of pride. The AKG mics made in Poland and the AT mics made in Taiwan for cheap money are much more reliable, and made in much greater numbers.
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DenaliDave · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:25 am Post subject: