VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[DenaliDave]

...Much better than you'd think. Seriously.

One of the things that drew me to the iD22 was the ability to completely bypass the internal preamps. Unlike a lot of interfaces that run an external preamp signal through the same circut path as the interface's preamp -- the iD22 uses a different, separate signal path straight to the A/D converters.

So I did an A/B using the old "announcer test" between the internal preamp and an external Avalon M5.

Now, maybe my ears are burnt out -- or I need to listen on a pair of good monitors instead of really neutral reference/monitoring headphones, but I'm both really impressed with the iD22's preamps, and underwhelmed with the Avalon M5 preamp.

I know everyone hates Soundcloud, but I uploaded this as a raw, uncompressed file. Logic lets me directly upload to Soundcloud within the program and I can select to various encoding (128, 192, 256, or uncompressed).

I *guess* I can hear a bit of a difference. It could just be that the gain levels are slightly off.

I know, I know mouth noises -- I didn't put on my chapstick or use my Biotine dry mouth gel. I didn't want to edit the sound file in ANY way to remove any clicks/mouth noises. I didn't even "normalize" the sound file.

So, take a listen...
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"The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve." - Buddha
www.alaskamic.com

[sdaeley17]

Glad to hear you like them, Dave! I was a big fan before mine got damage. I like the ID14 that I'm using now just as much, although I do fondly remember the ID22 being slightly more "musical", less "clinical" (both are very transparent, but I remember the 22 not being entirely without character. )

As someone who doesn't even know enough about preamps to get himself in trouble, I definitely prefer the one stop shop of a high quality interface with high quality internal pres. I don't think I'll upgrade unless it's at the behest of a trusted engineer.

Thanks for the test! You saved me 1500 bucks!
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"There's Magic all around us; you just have to see it. And the most wonderful Magic of all, is just bein' alive." -Uncle Montork, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe

[Jason Huggins]

I sent back an Avalon M5 Preamp for that very reason. The iD22 preamps were just as good with a little smoother sound. There was a shootout between a UA710 (hybrid tube and SS pre) and the iD22 preamp and I mistook the iD22 for a tube pre. I've been a big proponent for a long time now They are super clean and as has been said, not without character.

[DenaliDave]

Jason/Sean:

I'm STRONGLY considering sending mine back and getting something not only cheaper, but more versatile.

I like to also make music, and have a lot of friends that make music. It would be nice to have some direct inputs for instruments.

If the new Arturia Audiofuse had been out when I got my iD22 -- I might have gone that route. On paper, it hands-down beats the iD22 for the same price. It even has "Talkback feature with a dedicated built-in microphone".

I have their Microbrute analog synth -- good bit of kit. It's fun making unique sounds from scratch on a real instrument.

I'm reminded of the audiophile community I sometimes lurk around in. I'm by no means an audiophile myself, The game of diminishing returns comes to mind. After a certain point, the increases in quality become ridiculously marginal for the increases in price. At times were talking about decimal places on paper.

I'd say the iD22 sounds barley a bit "flatter" and more 2-dimensional than the M5 -- and that's after driving myself nuts listening over and over again on every pair of headphones and speakers I have.

Now, perhaps if I was using the M5 for singing? I heard a shootout between a Warm Audio WA12 and and M5 on vocalists -- and it was pretty darn close.

One of the studios locally here in town has shots of their Avalon 737 on their website. Cheesy. Totally. It does, however, reassure people who only know names/brands. Similar to how people know what a U87 is, even if they don't work with them.

Now, I've heard amazing things about the MartinSound Martech MSS‑10. Honestly, how much better than the M5 could it sound (which doesn't sound much different than the iD22) for single, spoken word?

What helped my sound out the most is the inclusion of the TLM-67. I went with the flattest Neumann they had. However, upon reading tons of other people who claim the TLM-67 is "colored" (I don't think sounds colored?) -- the overwhelming advice was a "wire with gain" preamp, as color+color = unexpected (and sometimes nasty) results. So, the M5.

Oh, the thing doesn't have an on/off switch either and the power supply is half the size of the preamp and twice as heavy.

The one UPSIDE to having an external pre is that if the preamp fails, your interface can still power the mic. Its sort of like those old TVs that had a built in DVD player. If the DVD player breaks, you just have a TV and can't watch movies anymore.

I'm not really upset at how underwhelming it performed during my initial test (I even let it warm up for 30 minutes)....but I feel their slogan at Avalon should be:

"Avalon: The Beats by Dre of the microphone preamp industry"
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"The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve." - Buddha
www.alaskamic.com

[Scott Pollak]

This is great info as I'm beginning the research and shopping phase to replace my PreSonus Bluetube which is just so-so.

Not having really kept up with the 8 bazillion choices we have in pre's now, this is a great starting point for me, and since the M5 interested me, I'm much more interested in saving $1000.
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Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[DenaliDave]

I'm going to try it with a dynamic mic (as the M5 has more gain than the iD22) to see how it sounds. Perhaps with other microphones it'll make bigger difference. It'll be interesting to see if I don't need to use my Triton Audio FetHead like I normally do with dynamics.

Another thing to consider: The M5 has an unbalanced output. The iD22 has a balanced input. The guys at the Audient helpdesk were awesome in answering my questions. It'll work fine, but apparently you loose some gain going unbalanced into balanced. Who knows, perhaps the signal quality suffers as well?

What I do know is that I'm not even going to attempt to install the optional Jensen transformer that'll make the M5 output a balanced signal.
_________________
"The wise ones fashioned speech with their thought, sifting it as grain is sifted through a sieve." - Buddha
www.alaskamic.com

[Quicksilver]

I recently did the same comparison. Same conclusion. iD22 is top notch, subtle difference. Couldn't say one was better though.

If you are looking for clean, both work great.

If I was dropping $1500 on an amp it would damn sure be a tube I can overdrive to get some fun tones out of.

[DenaliDave]

Well, I feel like a moron.

I had the Avalon's output plugged into the wrong spot on the iD22. I had it plugged into the send, not the return as the iD22 website says: