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Been seeing a shure sm7b but theres no chemistry
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iannyc
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 261
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:23 am    Post subject: Been seeing a shure sm7b but theres no chemistry Reply with quote

So Ive been dating this shure sm7b but theres just no chemistry at all. I feel like Ive tried everything.

I got her a UA solo 610 to spice up our relatiohship but she still just sounds kinda dead inside

I must confess when I went to edge studios for my introductory class we used a Neumann mic (not sure which one) and all of the passion came alive. I havent told my shure sm7b about it but Im thibking about trading her in for a neumann. I need passion even if I cant afford her pricey lifestyle I believe that itll increase my ability to book work 10x.

1) IS there a 'poor man's Neumann' you'd recommend? Definitely want a condenser mic not a dynamic (boring)

2) what is the least expensive Neu toy you'd reccommend?

3) will this play well with my universal audio solo 610 preamp? I got that on craigslist so Id hafta sell it-- I cant take it back

Dont judge me I tried to make it work and Im only human!!!

-I
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ricevoice
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 532
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably looking at a TLM-103, though Blue also makes some great mics in that price range.

But be forewarned: as a condenser mic will pic up more nuance from your voice it will also bring attention to any deficiencies in your recording environment. Be prepared to address acoustic treatment and any external noises that may be getting into your recording space.
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iannyc
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Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 261
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Chris, yes Im building a vocal booth this weekend. Gonna be... interesting
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Bruce
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 7921
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen the sm7b described here as a "dull" sounding mic compared to a large diaphragm condenser microphone, but serviceable for projects like audiobooks where absolute clarity is not required. Harumph.

There are many large diaphragm condenser mics out there in the $100 to $300 range that will give you quality close enough to a Neumann. It's like driving a new Chevy versus a new Mercedes. They'll both get you there, and if your client doesn't see you drive up, they usually won't know.

Go to Amazon for reviews of mics by Behringer, Audio Technica, and sE Electronics. Many sellers offer deals that include a shock mount or other useful peripherals.

B
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DenaliDave
Club 300


Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poor man's Neumann?

There's the TLM-102...but I sold mine. I didn't like how it sounded on *my* voice. Some people really love it though. They go for under $700 and you can probably find a used one in great condition on ebay for under $600.

Warm Audio is releasing a Neumann U87-type microphone in December for $599. If it's as good as their other hardware, it's probably going to be a very good microphone. Looking at the specs and what components are inside it though -- it looks nearly identical to the D87 Nuemann clone I had someone build me.

The SM7b is a dynamic microphone, and it's always going to sound a little...different than an LDC. There's generally less detail.

Do you have a Cloudlifter or a FetHead with your SM7b? A lot of people have expressed so-so results using dynamics like the SM7b or RE-20 without some kind of booster like the CL or Fethead.

I use the Triton Fethead because it's more streamlined and the consensus was it's about the same as a CloudLifter. Without it, I have to really turn the gains up. With it, however, I can use gain settings that resemble non-dynamic mics. It seemed to "open up" my RE-20 and BCM-705's.

Look into a CloudLifter:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CL1Cloud

Or a FetHead:
http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?sectionid=4&option=com_content&task=category&id=17Itemid=33
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iannyc
Been Here Awhile


Joined: 04 Oct 2016
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Location: Brooklyn, NYC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dave,

Great! I saw the 103 for $900 or so, as long as I can take my shure back @gtr ctr I should be okay for that! But ill try them all to see what I like

I got a cloudlifter but it was adding static it didnt sound good-- thats why I got the preamp, to boost the signal, and it does, but again the sound is just kinda 'meh', just, a little mushy or something
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DenaliDave
Club 300


Joined: 09 Jan 2016
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also the new Aston mics out of the UK, the Spirit and Origin. From what I've read on SOS and a few other places, they seem to be pretty awesome for the price. They also look pretty killer too.

If I had lots of slush funds to just throw around, I'd pick one up to demo and review.
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Jason Huggins
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: In the souls of a million jeans

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are some sweet looking (and possibly sounding) mics! Price sure is right for testing Smile
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DenaliDave
Club 300


Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Posts: 307
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason Huggins wrote:
Those are some sweet looking (and possibly sounding) mics! Price sure is right for testing Smile


That's what I was thinking!

"Dang, for how they look and supposedly sound that's a killer deal!...Wait, do I *really* need another mic?"

The story of how the company got started and how they've engineered their own product(s) is pretty interesting too. They're not trying to emulate or copy another microphone, but create their own instead.
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SteveToner
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Joined: 03 Oct 2016
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Location: LA & Sundance

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aston mics:

18dBA self-noise.

Not interested.
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Lance Blair
M&M


Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the new model Rode NT-1. It's the black one from 2014 to now. 4.5 dBA self noise, but a much louder output than the CAD E100 S, and a brighter sound. But not too bright! They cost usually $269. They sound great.

They have a tighter cardioid pattern. So they won't pick up the whole room but you can still work it off-axis.

The first two videos here were done with the Rode NT-1. The others with the CAD E100s.

http://lanceblairvo.com/voice-over-videos/
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AlanTaylor
Contributor II


Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 69
Location: Nashville

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was using an SM7B with a Cloudlifter when my booth was in a converted walk-in closet. I had some pretty nice success with that mic, landing both audiobooks and corporate narration with it. I have since changed to a TLM 103, but I NEVER would've made that change if I hadn't also improved my booth situation. (I bought a Whisperroom.) The Neumann is a fantastic mic and will bring out all the nuances in your delivery. It will also bring out all the deficiencies in your audio booth. If you're building a booth, I suggest you wait until that construction is complete before testing various mics.
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Bish
3.5 kHz


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve... regarding the self-noise of the Aston Origin:
(BTW, I'm certainly not saying you don't know this... but I just lost myself in hours of research and wanted to share what could be interesting for those who get lost with dB notation and weighting) - In my previous life I used to condition private lines for data & speech transmission, so am nauseatingly familiar with dB notation, noise weighting, and all that good stuff. However I will plead a level ignorance to the relative merits of the two main systems used for measuring the self-noise of mics (hence the rat-hole of research).

The Aston is quoting 18db A-weighted. Numerically, that doesn't look too wonderful. However, The A-weighting system is somewhat devalued as a good reference for how it sounds as it gives more "weight" to frequencies that our ears give less weight to. This has been somewhat superceded by the ITU-R 468 specification which weights more heavily in favour of the response of the human ear. It's extremely difficult to find any equivalents (i.e. the same mic measured with A-weighting or 468-weighting) but I have seen speculation that the numbers can look 10dB difference using A-weighting.

The problem is that manufacturers don't use the same test parameter and we (as consumers) have been trained to look at numbers rather than what the numbers actually mean. I went through a whole bunch of manufacturers specs trying to get a handle of the equivalence of A vs 468. Of course, it was fruitless because I wasn't comparing apples to apples... until Neumann came through!

Neumann u87ai (self-noise, cardioid measurement only)
A-weighted - 12dB-A
ITU-R 468 - 23dB

Neumann TLM103
A-weighted - 7dB-A
ITU-R 468 - 17.5dB

There is no doubt that at 18dBA (or approximately 28dB by 468) the Aston Origin is noisier than either of the Neumanns above (go figure!), but if we compare to other sub-$1000 mics:

AKG Perception 120 - 22dB-A
MXL 990 - 20db-A
AT 2020 - 20dB-A
Aston Origin - 18dB-A
AT 2050 - 17dB-A
Studio Project C1 - 17dB-A
AKG Perception 220 - 16dB-A
MXL VO1a - 16dB-A
Mojave MA50 - 16dB-A
AKG 214 - 13dB-A
Shure KSM32 - 13dB-A

No, the Aston is not wonderful... but it fights well at it's price-point I think. Incidentally, one of the "bad" performers listed (the AKG 220) is one of my favourite cheap mics and it's never struck me as particularly noisy. So, I'd still like to give the Aston a test-drive just to see how it actually sounds rather than reject based on numbers. Expectations are moderate... it is, after all, a $250 microphone!

Humble apologies for taking you down this rat-hole. I work on the principle that if I'm suffering, then you can too Smile
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Jason Huggins
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: In the souls of a million jeans

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sennheiser 416 comes in at 13dB and I have no noise complaints. The Lauten Atlantis (which I demoed in my studio) is rated at "less than" 12dB and it was audibly noisy. All the noise was in the high mids and highs....which meant that its "lower" noise resulted in hiss where the 416's "higher" noise (which is lower in the frequency spectrum) sounds much quieter.

I'll give the quieter Spirit a shot. It is rated at 14dB so, depending on WHERE the noise is in the spectrum, it should be just as good as any other mic.

When I switched from a modded NT1a (with a 5dB self noise level) to a 416 (with a 13dB self noise level) my noise did go up...but nobody cared. You can't hear the noise, especially after production, and if you have a quiet studio noise reduction will clean up any mic noise pretty transparently.

I will report back with audio clips in the coming week or so.
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FinMac
Lucky 700


Joined: 14 Jan 2013
Posts: 705
Location: In a really cool place...Finland!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject: Not wanting to thread jack but... Reply with quote

Bish,

Really don't want to thread jack but what you wrote is very interesting.

Thanks for taking us down that rabbit hole Smile

So, is CCIR and unweighted the same thing as 468 ?

Been trying to compare mic self-noise levels and it has been a real challenge.
Even finding S/N ratios on various mics is not easy. Even those, it seems, are "A" weighted or not. Even this list of great mics for VO does not have the same information to compare apples to apples. Sometimes you find the self-noise level, and sometimes it is not given. Even the S/N ratio sometimes shows a different way to measure it from mic to mic !

http://www.mixwerk.com/en/blog/1813-die-besten-mikrofone-f%C3%BCr-sprachaufnahmen-2015.html

The Ashton mics look interesting, but like Steve I considered them "too noisy". Perhaps the "tone" of the mic is the most significant part to consider.

Warm Audio is soon coming out with their WA-87, which I have been told, by one of their techs, is about 13.5 dB, or slightly better than a vintage 87.

Lately I have tried to get the cleanest signal possible out of my chain and the Rode NT1 has been really great for that.

If someone wants the most quiet mic around then perhaps this Lewitt is the mic to choose...Lewitt LCT 550.

Self-noise: 0dB-A electronics only, 3 dB-A according to IEC 60268-1 due to Brownian motion (in simple terms: the thomann sound caused by the movement of air molecules ...).

Now, how do we climb back out of this rabbit hole ?
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