VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[Kookster]

Ahaaaaaaa, aah thank you oh knowledgeable ones! Sorry for taking a whole week to reply - that there notification system stopped telling me I had replies. (that'll teach me not to check then won't it!)

So much to process here thanks for all this input!

While I think of it, I am struggling to work out what frequency my sibilance is actually at. It came out at just over 6 at one point...and then over 10. Not sure how to do it!

Well at the moment I have tried out a couple of mics that came recommended... Neumann u87ai and a Senn MK4 - I don't know if it's just my ears but they do sound rather similar!? **Sacrilege!** Mind you, they are owned by the same people are they not? Anyway, I plugged them both into the available inputs in the Audient id22, the gain is identical for both, and the output was pretty much the same too. Weird!

Mr Small was chosen specifically for it's magnificent amount of S'ssss...

u87ai
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tavr7e5y1mrgd7x/u87%20ad.mp3?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r8egu4ajgefw2rc/u87%20narration.mp3?dl=0

Senn MK4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vrugm8o6r08ev9m/mk4%20ad.mp3?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6ual5z673is5ep/MK4%20narration.mp3?dl=0

Here are the recordings...
Can you tell which is which? I honestly think I'm getting so used to my sibilance that I can't hear it anymore.. I KNOW it's there but I've gone 'sibilance blind!'

If neither of these are cutting the mustard on my voice then I may give the Senn 416 a whirl, and maybe another Neumann.. but just cannot decide which, either the TLM102, the TLM193 or the newish TLM 107? and as so many people have suggested... maybe the Rode NT1-A.

Or will one of these two mics I have in my hands fit the bill? (please say yes haha)

Brain is beginning to fry!

It may just be cheaper (and quicker) to have mouth surgery to sort out the Sssssss?
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(otherwise known as Cari, if you squint it looks like Carl)

[John Kissinger]

Hi Caroline,

There are far more qualified VO-BBers than I to weigh in with solutions to your dilemma. Just a humble neophyte here. But, I'll take a stab at it -- having personally tried all of the mics you've indicated (though not the MK4).

It sounds to me like your Sss's are most prominent in the 10k-11k range. In that neighborhood at least. Could be a bit more or less.

Lacking more sophisticated equipment, I just narrowed the Q (to 11) in the Parametric EQ of TwistedWave and swept the frequency back and forth listening for the harshest (most ear-scratching) frequency. If you haven't already, you may want to give that a try in whatever recording software you're using and see what you can find.

The challenge you'll have in trying to solve your sibilance with "that perfect mic" is that almost ALL of the mics you're considering, have a significant frequency boost in the general area where you appear to be most sibilant, making your natural sibilance much more prominent. That said, the TLM 193's boost is lower than the others. That's why it's often favored for sibilant voices. Less artificial presence boost.

If you have the ability to try before you buy, you may want to give that one a go. But, you may need something more surgical like a software plug-in or outboard de-esser. Going it the mic route alone has the unintended consequence of changing the frequency response pattern across the board, not just in the area you're sibilant. So, you may find that you don't like how you sound everywhere else. But, there's no harm in trying.

Looking forward to hearing how your quest progresses!

[MBVOXX]

[FinMac]

Hei Kookster,

Have you thought about contacting George Whittam regarding your quest for the best mic to solve your problem ?

Perhaps he can find an alternative solution, such as setting up a good de-esser for you.

George might save you a lot of time and money Just a thought!
_________________
www.scottsvoiceover.com - An American voice in Finland

"If you want to get to the top, you have to get off your bottom". (Unknown)

[Kookster]

Thanks John that's really helpful - I just couldn't work out how to do it! That explains a lot with some of these mics also.. where the frequency range is!

Thanks MBVOXX. I've just ordered a TLM193 to trial and an engineer recommended I try the Mojave MA200 (any thoughts?) They have one out on trial at the moment but will pop it over to me as soon as they're done!

FinMac - superstar!! That's a great idea... what would be the best way to contact George Wittam?
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(otherwise known as Cari, if you squint it looks like Carl)

[MBVOXX]

I've never used a Mojave mic but have read good things about them from people who produce music.

[John Kissinger]

I've heard great things about the Mojave mics too. But, nothing relative to their ability to tame sibilance.

Check out Google Images using the search term "Mojave MA200 Frequency Response." You'll immediately see a freq chart that shows a pretty strong lift-off from 2K - 15K, peaking at a 5db boost around 15K.

At 10K where we "think" you tend to be most sibilant, it appears to be about a 3db boost. But, you probably need a cut somewhere in that range instead.

FinMac is spot on in encouraging you to connect with George Whittam. He'll get you sorted out. In fact, the tip I shared with you earlier, to find the problem frequency, was something I liberated from a video tutorial George made for me last year when I hired him to help me with Twisted Wave settings on my iPad.

Really looking forward to hearing what you discover with that 193! Please keep us updated.

[Rob Ellis]

based on my experience the Mojave MA 201 FET would be a better choice than the MA 200 when it comes to sibilance.

[Kookster]

Thanks all, I'll get these mics in and then contact George once I'm set up. It'll be a couple of weeks apparently and the Mojave is out on trial at the moment so should come in around the same time. Good point on that Rob, I'll ask if they have the 201 FET for trial also!

I've read it before and although my booth resembles the inside of a super padded de padded thing, I think I can hear the room more with the u87. At least I *think*I can aaarrgg...

In the meantime... I'm watching 'how to tame your sibilance' coaching videos

Watch thisssssss sssssspaace!
_________________
(otherwise known as Cari, if you squint it looks like Carl)

[Kookster]

I'm back wahoo! Okay here we have the u87ai and the TLM193. Lovely super esssssy passage to compare response. I recorded both at the same time, both mics set at exact same notch on the Audient and no processing. Interested to hear your thoughts oh wise ones!

U87ai
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5cchcw92cg9fvky/u87ai%20Mr%20Small.wav?dl=0

TLM193
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dezj3jw0fb670wv/TLM193%20Mr%20Small.wav?dl=0
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(otherwise known as Cari, if you squint it looks like Carl)

[John Kissinger]

Kookster! You're back!

Thanks so much for udpating us on your progress. I was beginning to wonder how you were getting along.

What do you think of these two mics on your voice? What differences do you hear? And, which one do you prefer?

For my part, I just quickly listened to these takes on Apple EarPods connected to my iPad, while at work. My thoughts?

You've done nothing to dispell my belief that there is no such thing as a Magic Mic for sibilance-taming. Rather, you've confirmed my own experiences in comparing a U87ai with the TLM 170 (similar to a multi-pattern TLM 193 -- same frequency response curve in cardioid).

Definitely a noticeable difference in the sound of the two mics though. U87ai is more forward/present to my ear. TLM 193 smoothes out some of the harshness/brittleness I hear in the U87ai. Though it sounds a little less exciting, as a consequence. But, after multiple listens of these mics on your voice, I'd rather hear it on the 193 if you don't do anything else to tame the sibilance.

Just one man's opinion. Again, I'm curious to know your thoughts, as well as what others think.

In my neophyte opinion, neither of them effectively tames your sibilance. Sounds like it's time to try to cut those sibilant frequencies in your EQ. Barring that, a dedicated de-esser.

Good luck and keep us posted!
John

[FinMac]

[Kookster]

Hi John! I have to say I agree with you! The u87ai definately sounds more upfront in the lower registers but the TLM193 sounds a little smoother, not so harsh (but I'm unsure if it's smoother or yes, just not quite as exciting!!)

I can't really hear much difference in the sibilance either... if I was pushed, I'd say there's a tiny bit off the TLM193 but I've listened on various sources and it's SO hard to tell between them!

I'm torn. I was really hoping the 193 would make a world of difference. I guess there is no magic mic out there. If the source has an issue... the mic isn't a magic stick! Now do I start again and trial others (not in a massive rush - just want to get this right!), or do I admit defeat, keep one of the Neumanns and get a sh*t hot de-esser and/or Mr Whittam to work his magic! Hmmm....!
_________________
(otherwise known as Cari, if you squint it looks like Carl)

[John Kissinger]

I feel your pain! I wanted desperately for the TLM 170 (which cost me almost as much as a U87ai!) to do the trick. Alas, it didn't.

I think you'll save yourself a lot of time and aggravation if you go right to George. The hunt for the mythical mic will have you spending more than you want to and cost you countless hours.

George occasionally weighs in on the Gear forum. So you're in the right spot. His handle is "soundgun." Or, you can look him up through the Edge Studio site. He has a team of tech support pros offering a variety of services. If nothing else, he'd be a good one to advise you on whether or not you should stay in the hunt for Magic Mic, can fix the sib with EQ alone, or ultimately need a de-esser.

[Kookster]

Hi Finmac! I think you're both right, probably best to save a lot of time and work with one of these with George Whittam!

I have the option to trial a couple of Mojave's but wondering whether it's worth bothering. I also have a Sennheiser 416 to try but I now know that won't solve the problem because of it's frequency response, so I may just send it straight back. It was something I fancied just having in my arsenal but won't confuse matters with that right now!

Sooo... that just leaves a decision on whether to work with the u87ai or with the TLM193. The TLM193 is £1000 less but of course the u87ai has so much kudos which I'm not immune to. With sensible hat on, I should just keep the one that will give the best end result.

Is it okay to message George direct here do you think, to see where's best to start the ball rolling?
_________________
(otherwise known as Cari, if you squint it looks like Carl)