VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[mcm]

So, I've been recording VO for 10 months with my Rode NT1A and Behringer Eurorack B802 cutiepie mixer and am growing dissatisfied with the quality of the recordings. I need warmth. Something. I don't like anything I'm doing as much as I like my demo, which was recorded on about $7000 worth of equipment so I'm not going there and probably don't have to. But I don't know where to start. Microphone or pre-amp/processor. If the latter, I'm thinking about the by-pass-the-sound-card route. Like the Mackie Spike. Could I do better? I know there have been discussions of mixers ad nauseum here, and some mention of the Spike. But in looking through the discussions I don't see anything that quite addresses the problem I'm having, primarily because I don't really know what the problem is that I'm having!! General dissatisfaction and je ne sais quois. My recordings seem a little muddy somehow.

Sigh.

Any thoughts? Sorry to be so vague.

[Philip Banks]

First you have to say how much you will spend as opposed to how much you won't. A recording engineer with 30 years experience told me to buy THE mic, spend as much as possible + a little extra, then with what's left buy the rest. The built in pre-amps on the Behringer are fine and will not colour the sound of a good mic. Having not heard the sound you don't like it's difficult to suggest how to get the sound you will like.

As a general rule of thumb. If your sound isn't clean and clear, good enough to broadcast with pre-amp just powering the mic, no compression and neutral EQ you need to do something.

[brianforrester]

Hi Mary,

My first thought is that the problem with the muddiness of your vocals is the mic... the second mic I purchased was actually the NT1A... I'm a big fan of Rode mics, but I really found that particular mic just muddied up my vocals. I then moved onto the NT1000 and have been very happy! However having recently recorded in various studios with a TLM 103, Rode NTK and U87!!!!! I've decided that it won't be long before I'll be upgrading, either the TLM 103 or NTK will probably be the route I'll go(unless of course I can find a U87 for the same price... yeah right!!).

My experience with Behringer mixers (I had a UB802 for about a week before I sold it on E-bay) has been less than impressive. I've since started running my mic right into the mbox and overall have been much more satisfied with the sound. I'm currently considering purchasing a stand-alone mic pre-amp (maybe a presonus Eureka).

My suggestion would be along the lines of what Phil has said, start at the mic and work your way backwards. If you can spend about $350 on a mic, I think you'll be really happy as a starting point (if you can afford more, then make the investment in a better mic). If you're running purely into a sound card, you'll definately need a solid pre-amp (sound card pre's usually suck!), but you can probably get away with a price range of about $100 - $150 (all the prices I'm talking about are based on my favorite marketplace ... EBAY!). I personally don't see too much neccesisty in running with a mixer, therefore a good mic, running through a good pre-amp, into a good sound card or external device like the M-Audio stuff or Mbox (you don't necessarily need a pre-amp if you use the mbox, the pre's are pretty good). If you want to stay with using Audition (I think that's what you have said you are using), then go with the M-Audio external option and throw a pre-amp into the chain. All said, I'd guess you could be into a pretty good signal chain for a bit over $500 - $600.

As with everything, simply my opinion based on some costly mistakes and many hours of reading reviews and opinions.

Good Luck
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Brian Forrester Voice Overs
www.brianforrester.com
brian@brianforrester.com
778.668.5715

[Micazon]

(In a world) without tape recorders, there are basically two ways to record: 1) into a cd burner directly or, 2) into a computer/other electronic device. With either you can still use the computer to store/transmit the files you record. So, first things first. Do you want to have to rely on a computer to record and store or use a cd recorder to record/burn and then transfer the files to a computer anyway? It probably depends on how computer savvy you are or want to be.

If you're using just the recorder then additional equipment like mic amps, conpressors, and equalization(eq's) will be needed to give you the sound and the warmth for which you are looking. This could be many dollars for the investment. Sometimes thousands of them.

If you're using the computer then there are software programs that will give the warmth, like Audition, which is relatively inexpensive compared to others that might cost over $1,000. This is generally cheaper than all the other equipment, however purists will tell you that it will sound like a digital recording when you're done. Don't pay attention to them. Make it sound clean, add a little eq and compression only and let yoru client tweak it if they want to do so. When it plays at the radio/tv station, they will compress it more anyway. This will automatically give it a warmer and usually bigger sound.

The other members of the board are right in saying that starting with the best mic you can afford. In some cases, depending on the mic, your voice, the acoustics of the room you record in combination with the software or other equipment, you'll have what you are looking for anyway. Great room acoustics are key for this. If you have a good pro audion store close by you, start a relationship with one or more salespeople and tell them want you're doing. See if you can take a mic or two home and try them both to see which one is best for you. Ask them about a return policy and how liberal it is and if they have a professional discount that they can give you. Hint: they do.

So, how much do you want to spend?, Are you wanting to use just a computer/input device like a sound card, or do you want to invest in other equipment, too, if you haven't already done so.

In a land where there is not one answer for all, you have to pick for yourself and once you answer these questions for you, the direction to go to will be simpler.

No charge.
Thanks.

[mcm]

Have already got the good computer, okay sound card (SB Audigy 2), software (Audition), a decent but not great mic and a sturdy little trooper of a mixer to power the mic. What I'm trying to decide is 1) whether to bypass the sound card and upgrade to something like a Mackie A-D processor and/or b) upgrade to a mic that is better suited to my voice which is on the light and airy side in its default setting.

I'm hearing mic. Trouble is, I know lots of guys and their mics (hey, don't EVEN go there) but don't know many women VO and none with a voice like mine so I don't have many ideas about what mic would be good for me. One suggestion was AT 4033. Another was Gefell (is that a Neumann make?) which is trop cher pour moi right now - no mic stores nearby, more's the pity. I will be starting work on a documentary next week, and would really like to improve my sound in time for that project, since the voice will be so "out there".

[lisaloo]

Amen to the comments about spending the $ on the mic. It's everything.
Garbage in, garbage out and all that.

My everyday mic is a Neumann TLM-103 -- not super-cheap, but worth every penny and hardly the most expensive on the market. I don't have a ton of experience with owning other brands, but I find that condenser mics (in general) treat me better than others and that Neumann's are this girl's best friend. Especially if you have a mid-to-lower register voice -- this mic will likely serve you well, too. If you're looking for warmth, go this route.

In any case, spend your money on the mic first and it will solve a lot of other problems for you.

I also just bought a mic processor (Behringer MD2200 or whatever the hell it's called) and I have to say that I can't tell if it's made a lick of difference. Then again, I really don't know what the heck to do with it, so there's that.



But it didn't hurt. And it only set me back a small amount on eBay.

Hope this helps,

Loo

[Charlie Channel]

In the realm of "it blew my mind" and Boys and their Toys, last November I was exploring and met another VO using AudioTX. So, we decided to test the IP feature of the product.

The artist is well known and works alot. And, when we connected, I was totally blown away by the quality of his mic. My monitors speakers are Studiophile BX5's and my headphones are Sony MCR-V900.

When I asked him what mic he was using, he said it was actually a $120 inexpensive mic. But, he was also running a microphone modeler that came with his "older" Roland DAW. He was modeling a U-87. He said his clients didn't know the difference and he'd not had any complaints over the years.

So, that sent me off to find something. I ended up scoring a an Antares microphone modeler on Ebay for $200 or so. So, now I can make a Shure SM-58 sound sort of like a Neuman U-87, U-47, TM-103 or whatever.

B U T !!!! The fact is, the equipment hasn't scored me one job. And, I think the fact that you're getting work means your talent and skill is what's making the difference.

The vet's with engineering skill can probably speak more to this observation I've made: The sonic quality may be a function of the microphone, but the context of the audio content will likely effect what is produced. And, that is often in the domain of the engineer and producer.

When I listen to commercials, I find the vo audio content affected by the setting of the script. Street tone may be in the background and the voiced audio may be tweeked to give it that kind of sound. "Office tone?" Conversational, matter-of-fact chatting between two co-workers is mic'd to make it sound like a mic in an office; or maybe it's EQ'd and processed to sound like that. The clearest example is EQ'ing a read made with a Neuman through a filter so it sounds like a real telephone conversation, at least on one side.

Along the way, I found out that in music production, there's a process called "mastering" that makes a big difference in how what's recorded sounds to those who listen. So, it's important to remember that what you're hearing when you listen to yourself has not been mastered.

Again, those vet's with engineering acumen can speak about how mastering affects voice content. On that subject, as best I can tell, the signal is tweeked to make it sound good on as many speakers as the audience may be listening on. Boom box. Auto stereo. HDTV sound surround. Table radio.

I can "see" how a book on tape recording would be mastered to be intelligible when listened to in a car. In that environment, road noise may mask perceived difficiencies.

There are a lot of variables in the chain, so the advice to invest in a good mic and a good pre is on the mark.

You may want to converse with some engineers on which mic's they like to use with female voices. I worked with a producer/engineer who had a mic closet and a good handle on which mic's worked better for male versus female voices. And, to really put things in perspective, I read where one working talent wrote that his best mic ever, as far as he was concerned, was some cheap mic (maybe cost around $35) that's no longer in production. ':shock:'

cc

[kgenus]

Don't be fooled by the room you recorded your demo in. There is an equation that's a known factor for audio, which causes recorded audio to sound better (4W x 5L x 8H). It's the reason so many booths have 4x6 external dimensions. A square room introduces modes which can become a nightmare to work with once you get behind the mixer.

Also, the preamp is just as important as the mic, as is the conversion. The difference is that preamps do not cost as much as mics. I prefer tube preamps because dynamic mics still sound great when they're plugged in, but everyone has an opinion there. Of the solid state preamps, John Hardy Preamps are relatively inexpensive and they're one of the few preamps you never see on chopping block. Plan a few trips to Boston's Mercenary Audio. Those people are the real deal, not the GC brand....

Kevin
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Genus

[kitstern]

I would second Kevin on the preamp. The Earthworks 101 mic pre I bought last year (thank you Kevin) has made a big difference in the clarity of the Gefell mic I have. But the mic is the main thing, make sure it suits your voice without anything else added to the chain. Then the other equipment added is the icing on the cake.
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Enjoy life, this is not a rehearsal.

http://www.kitziestern.com/

[Mike]

[donrandall]

[brianforrester]

Hey Don,

I actually just completed the sale on the Presonus Eureka. I found an awesome deal for a brand new unit complete with the AD192 card for $449 plus shipping of about $30. I'm not to sure about whether or not I'll use the AD192, I may just sell it, but I'd welcome your input if you have it with your unit.

I weighed the pros and cons of going with the Symetrix, but from some of the reviews I read, and the fact that they are used quite heavily in broadcast and live performance applications, kinda turned me off. I'm looking for a studio grade unit, not a live/broadcast grade unit... who knows, I could be making a huge mistake, but it wouldn't be the first one related to hardware. I know that a bunch of y'all are using the Symetrix and are very happy with it, so I may be joining your ranks if I'm unhappy with the Eureka.

Anyway, I've kinda gone a spending spree! I just bought a TLM103, the Presonus, and some other misc studio items so I can't wait to get them all in my hot little hands and start to play.

Needless to say, I'll in all likelihood be selling a Rode NT1000 and NTK in the not to distant future (unless for some unforseen reason I don't like the TLM103... yeah right!), so if anybody is in the market please let me know.

Anyway everbody.... it's great to be back in the posts!!! Thanks for all of your efforts DB, I along with the others truly do appreicate all of your work!!!! This board has become a part of my daily routine! THANK YOU!!!

Cheers,
_________________
Brian Forrester Voice Overs
www.brianforrester.com
brian@brianforrester.com
778.668.5715

[kitstern]

I second that. I don't always have time to post, but I always read the board and when we were down I really missed it.

DB, thanks for all your hard work in getting us back up again. Don't know what we'd do without you!
_________________
Enjoy life, this is not a rehearsal.

http://www.kitziestern.com/

[mcm]

[kgenus]