VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

[COURVO]

....neither is winning... and I'm losing.

'Spent the better part of 12 hours of my Saturday -- a precious weekend day -- wrestling with drivers, uninstalls, re-installs, editing the registry, consulting FAQ's, re-booting, dealing with device drivers, re-configuring, re-starting, uninstalling AGAIN, re-installing AGAIN.... nothing.

Absolutely nothing to show for it. I'm perfectly in the same place I started this morning: When I start Pro-Tools, it crashes my system like hitting a reset button on the front of your computer.

I use M-Audio Pro-Tools 7.4 with an M-Audio Firewire Solo on WinXP Pro.

Trying to install new drivers for the Firewire solo in the first place won my DAW a trip to the nice computer man for a complete HD reformat.

I saved my data, but in re-installing all my working programs again, POW! There's the PT system crash again.

Turns out the new Firewire solo drivers are not compatible with WinXP. So, fixing THAT would fix my problems. Right? 2 more hours, trying to re-establish my old FireWire Solo drivers.... and.... nope... didn't help.

I know I have the right equipment... 'been using this same computer with PT for months... but somehow in the middle of this reconfiguration of the FireWire Solo drivers, SOMETHING's gone haywire.

More HERE in my blog.

Opinions, suggestions, recommendations, admonitions, criticisms all accepted. I've absolutely run out ideas... so it's off to the Digidesign User Forums tomorrow....!!

Thanks for listening.

CourVO
_________________
Dave Courvoisier - Las Vegas, NV
http://www.CourVO.com
CourVO@CourVO.com
Courvo's "Voice Acting in Vegas" Blog: http://www.CourVO.biz
on your phone at courvo.mobi
702.610.6288
"I'm not a news anchor, but I play one on TV."

[Travis]

Hi Courvo,

I had the Firewire Solo on my XP machine. For a complex set of reasons, I upgrated to Windows Vista on my primary audio machine. Tried the new (As of last November) Vista drivers - then, the unit didn't work-at all. which, since the attempt at loading the Vista drivers, now also won't work on another XP machine.

I had an Audiophile USB on my Mac - so I switched that to the Vista machine, and the Firewire solo to the Mac. The Solo still works on the Mac, and the Audiophile USB works on the Windows Vista machine.

It appears the Vista drivers download new firmware to the Solo - which now won't work on a PC!

Anyway, I needed balanced inputs to my audio interface - the megaplex theater across the street has Neon signs which create tremendous amounts of EMF which finds it's way into my system at night, so I bought M-Audio's new Fast Track Ultra - a USB 2.0 interface - works perfectly.

So, my advice is to try the new Fast Track Ultra - If it's certified for Pro Tools. Also contact M-Audio and see if they have any resolution for you on the Solo.

(Whew!) Good luck.
_________________
Travis
www.VOTalent.com

[louzucaro]

Hi Dave,

The biggest red flag in what you wrote was this line:

[quote]Trying to install new drivers for the Firewire solo in the first place won my DAW a trip to the nice computer man for a complete HD reformat.[/url]

I hate to say it, but you may need a new 'nice computer man'. I have never seen a driver installation require an HD reformat...sounds more like your guy not knowing where to look. A driver is just a little piece of software that tells Windows how to talk to the hardward that the driver belongs to. Especially for something like a firewire device, even one with audio drivers, just rebooting the machine into Safe Mode and removing the driver should be enough to undo anything that it did.

I don't know PT, so I can't really comment on that. I suppose that M-Audio did something naughty like try to write directly to the hard drive without going through the Windows APIs, that PT itself could cause all sorts of issues, but that's almost 100% unlikely since it would require the installation of drivers for your specific motherboard / hard drive controller which I'm sure you didn't do.

From what you've written, it sounds like maybe there's an IRQ or DMA conflict going on with the interface. Yes, XP is a "Plug-N-Play" OS, but if a manufacturer doesn't write their drivers correctly, and forces their hardware to certain IRQ or DMA settings (for whatever reason) then the OS is sometimes helpless to manage those settings properly between devices, especially if you happen to have two devices in your system for which the manufacturer(s) have done this.

Then, when software like PT tries to access the device in question, it chokes, memory goes haywire and XP reboots itself to avoid any more serious issues.

But again, simply going into Safe Mode and removing the offending driver should take care of the issue in such a case.

Also, when you said that it took 2 hours to install the old version of the drivers, why is this? The installation process literally, itself, took 2 hours, or between installing it, checking settings, tweaking things to actually get sound, it took a total of 2 hours?
_________________
Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com

"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!"

[COURVO]

Travis and Lou...

Thanks for taking the time.... 'nice to know someone cares... these things,....well....you struggle in silence.

Anyway, short of taking Travis' suggestion to buy anew.... I DO plan to call M-Audio customer support Monday. Of course these predicaments always happen on a weekend.

Lou, my computer guy denied having done the HD reformat, but he must have done something drastic, 'cause all my programs were gone. He's pretty good, and somehow got the new M-Audio drivers installed despite the fact they weren't designed to work with WinXP...

You asked me why it took so long to reverse that and get the old drivers installed.

Well, I kept getting the MS message that "the CV/A subunit will not install because the name is already in use as either a service name or service display name." THAT'S when I had to get into the registry. But it took some research on the internet, and some time to find the offending HKEY_LOCAL_CONTROL setting.

Thanks again for your detailed response. I'm not giving in just yet.

CourVO
_________________
Dave Courvoisier - Las Vegas, NV
http://www.CourVO.com
CourVO@CourVO.com
Courvo's "Voice Acting in Vegas" Blog: http://www.CourVO.biz
on your phone at courvo.mobi
702.610.6288
"I'm not a news anchor, but I play one on TV."

[louzucaro]

Yeah, when I built my DAW last year, one thing I noticed when researching manufacturers online was that it seemed like people reported these kinds of troubles fairly often.

A lot of times, manufacturers get their drivers to work, but don't necessarily do the best job of "housekeeping"...deleting all the files, settings, etc. used during the installation process that aren't needed afterward. Same goes for uninstalling things...sometimes a company's uninstaller won't get everything.

If stuff is left after a "dirty" installation, you can find the type of problem you're describing, where Windows will say "Hmm, I can't do that...I've already done it!" except, of course, it doesn't actually tell us users that

That's kinda funny (in a not so funny way) that he denied re-installing but that all of your software was gone...yipes!

It is surprising that you'd be able to install Vista-specific drivers under XP at all, but unfortunately not surprising that they wouldn't work.

Good luck!
_________________
Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com

"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!"

[Doc]

Dave,

Before you sent your system to the "computer guy" did you attempt a System Restore?

It has saved my butt more than a couple of times.

[Jon Morss]

Dave,

Sorry to hear your troubles. You just gotta love computers.

First off, I may have missed this somewhere, but was this a config that was up and running and then suddenly started to give you issues. If so, what happen just prior to the issues that started? Did you update some other software, like an Anti-Virus software, Windows Service pack or something else in the mix? Sometimes these can cause havoc to your system as well. If this was a new install, are you certain that Pro-Tools is supported with the M-Audio FireWire Solo? I know there are M-Powered versions of Pro-Tools that are for specific versions of M-audio hardware and you need to ensure to have a match.

As far as the driver you installed not being compatible with WinXP, is this stated on the M-Audio web site. It seems that there is a link to an updated driver for WinXP. Did you download the wrong driver or is the driver listed at M-Audio bad? I suppose your call to M-audio would answer the supportability of the driver.

Although I'm sure you have researched this thoroughly, there seems to be a FAQ at M-Audio that outlines the install of the driver on WinXP and points out some gotchas. I particular like the comment about deleting the contents of your TEMP folder.

[COURVO]

Doc.... thanks... and good to hear from you.... I DID try the system restore in several ways.... to no avail.

John,
Things were working good before all this...I'd even installed and successfully completed a Source Connect session. Then I saw a notice that M-Audio had newer, updated drivers for it's Pro-Tools systems. The FireWire Solo came WITH the Pro-Tools in a package deal, so yes, I know it's compatible. I hate the M-Audio GUI interface, and thought maybe the new upgrade was the ticket....boy was I wrong! It said nothing about being incompatible with the XP system.

Anyway, I installed the new drivers, and right away had the problems, which continue today. Frank Frederick was the guy who told me they are not compatible with WinXP....and I've learned to trust Frank in most things techie.

As for my computer guy, this would be the first time in years he's failed me. Most of the time, he comes through in spades. He built this system from scratch from specs I requested, and fixes it for free when it doesn't work.... as he did this time. I don't think he's the problem, here.... but he's not that familiar with DAWs and their unique hardware/software demands, I'll say that.

John, I'm all over your M-Audio reference. At least now I've got some leads and some ideas to try out.

Thanks!

CourVO
_________________
Dave Courvoisier - Las Vegas, NV
http://www.CourVO.com
CourVO@CourVO.com
Courvo's "Voice Acting in Vegas" Blog: http://www.CourVO.biz
on your phone at courvo.mobi
702.610.6288
"I'm not a news anchor, but I play one on TV."

[Jon Morss]

Dave,

It certainly looks like you have a handle on this and I would never second guess Frank. If I were in your shoes I would certainly go after M-Audio on this one since they state their latest drivers have been tested and certified with XP.
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.new&ID=1106

If there really is an issue with the driver and you lost a job or time that was needed to spend with a client, I would point this out and hammer them on it. Who knows, maybe you will get something from it outside of self satisfaction.

Good luck man.

[Frank F]

Just for those who wonder about my thinking and conclusions...

First let me state this up front: "The more the hype, the less the truth".

That said; DigiDesign has been confirmed to have drivers that are not backwards compatible with XP (numerous forums, multiple users, and personal experience are some of my sources)... their statements are hype to get you to buy another DD product or wait until their drivers do work... (hence, the more the hype...).

As many of you know, I do not enjoy ProTools or any DigiDesign product - Dave's situation is another example of why I own my personal opinion. Once you update drivers you also update firmware within the M-Box; this is where the trouble begins. You cannot un-do the firmware update.

So, now a solution? I do not have an answer yet, but will work with Dave to find a proper workaround or fix to make the situation work for HIS computer and M-Audio/DigiDesign product, with any luck.

I am not talking down or diss-ing DD or M-Audio, I own a few of the products and use them --- sparingly. Using the DD products is your choice, do not use my opinion as your basis for buying or not buying the equipment/software you desire.

Toodles

Frank F
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[bobsouer]

Frank (and Dave)...

The very first thing I would do, assuming you do eventually get the hardware drivers working again is to roll your Pro Tools version back to 7.3.x. As I recall from reading in the DUC shortly after 7.4 was released, there are MANY issues involving 7.4 and WinXP in particular that have not yet been resolved. Until they are, I'm staying with 7.3.x.
_________________
Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
ISDN, Source Connect, phone patch

[COURVO]

That is a great suggestion, Bob, and I've already completed the change-over.

However, my computer is now impervious to any opportunities for positive change, and has decided to move to Cuba.

;-}

Seriously, THAT didn't work either. Despite all the erudite and helpful suggestions, I fear I'm gonna have to threaten M-Audio Customer Support within an inch of their lives to get them to fix this.

First thing in the morning!

More updates as they become available.

You guys are awesome and true friends!

CourVO
_________________
Dave Courvoisier - Las Vegas, NV
http://www.CourVO.com
CourVO@CourVO.com
Courvo's "Voice Acting in Vegas" Blog: http://www.CourVO.biz
on your phone at courvo.mobi
702.610.6288
"I'm not a news anchor, but I play one on TV."

[Travis]

Okay.... It's time to resort to real "troubleshooting" techniques.

First thing you need to do is isolate the problem -- Is it your computer hardware, your operating system (X, Pro Tools, the Firewire Solo hardware, the M-Audio drivers, or something else.

(1) Is your computer operating correctly when Pro Tools isn't running, and when the Firewire solo isn't plugged in? Can you get audio from the computer's built-in audio outputs?

If no, you need to fix that stuff first.

(2) Can you get audio from the FireWire solo without going through Pro Tools. You can force you system to direct all audio to the FireWire solo through the control panel. If you can't get any audio through the FireWire solo, can you get the FireWire solo to install on another XP machine? (I couldn't, after the first "driver update") If that's the case, as far as you're concerned, the FireWire Solo is dead - you gotta' get M-Audio to fix it for you.

(3) If you can get other audio through the FW-Solo, then it's most likely a Pro-Tools issue, and it's time to switch to Adobe Audition, or, at least have Audition handy 'til Digidesign gets Pro Tools straightened out.

Oh, and if you're depending on having a computer for your income, you need to have a spare EVERYTHING!
_________________
Travis
www.VOTalent.com

[Frank F]

Travis, et al:

The Firewire Solo is one of the culprits. This was determined by doing an audio check with other programs... the audio was there, but was of extremely poor quality.

So Dave is going to talk "nasty-grams" to M-Audio (I wish I could be the fly on the wall with during that conversation -- LOL).

Good luck Dave!

Toodles

F2
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Doc]

Dave,

Use your clout! Tell 'em you're a TV News anchor and are considering writing and delivering an expose on your problem.



I've only made that particular threat twice in my broadcast career and each time, it achieved the desired result.

Hell - recently I had an "issue" with Comcast. I posted my opinion on my blog and 2 (that's correct-2) days later I got a call from their executive offices and my problems are solved.