VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!

CarynClark · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: MBox2 issue

Hi there all,

Courvo's experience in calling Digi makes me a little apprehensive. I do plan to call them though... they're not open yet.

In the meantime, I'll share my plight in case any of you have any ideas.

I recently had my Symetrix repaired, and when I hooked it back up...

I'm getting a high pitch sound from my MBox2, and it's leaking into my recordings. I can hear it in my headphones as a constant (drives me batty), but I don't hear it as part of the track, or see it as part of the track, during playback. But the engineers hear it in the track. One sent me the audio back so I could hear it and ewwww!

One engineer friend said, "It's not the Symetrix doing it because I hear it being gated by the Symetrix. It must be the M-box. Only thing it could be really. No way a mic or cable could cause it."

But they didn't have any ideas as to how to fix. Thoughts?
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Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

TheVoiceOfBob · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:31 am Post subject:

When you hooked everything back up, did you change your cable routing? Perhaps it's picking up something there. Move them around, unplug and plug again to be sure of a good connection. Crank up the audio in your headphones to see if you can hear it and bend around/move your cables.
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CarynClark · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:31 am Post subject:

HEY, I found an answer on their site!! Now... how do I fix this. <sigh>

Mbox or Mbox 2 experiences whine or high pitched noise while in use.
The problem is related to either the computer itself, or to ground loops induced by plugging gear into multiple outlets or just plain bad grounding. The Mbox is generally not the culprit.

The following steps can help resolve the issue:

1) Plug all gear into the same outlet and/or make sure your outlets have a good ground.
2) Use TRS (balanced) cables from the outputs of the Mbox.
3) Get a Monster 'Ultimate Performance' USB Cable

If you are on a G5 and the above recommendations don't help, you can install the Apple Developer Tool called CHUD which helps remove noise cause by the processor to be eliminated.

More information on installing CHUD: http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=54&langid=1&itemid=20534

Further troubleshooting and help with 60 cycle hum issues click here.
[Page View]
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Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

CarynClark · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:59 am Post subject:

Hey, I didn't see your reply. Nope, I didn't change any cable routing. I had this high pitch when I originally hooked up my equipment, but I'm not sure how it went away, but it did.

I don't think it's a ground issue. I unplugged everything one by one and still get the noise. However, I do have an extender cable on my usb cable, and it appears that when I unhook that and hook it in with just one USB cable, the whine is gone... although I do hear some other interference. I'm going to take Digi's suggestion and order a Monster Ultimate Performance USB cable.

I dunno if that's really the solution though.

They also mention running audio and power cables parallel (not to do that) and crossing them at 90 (degree angles, I assume). Well, all of mine are clumped together and just run down the wall to either my desk (where my mixer is) or the floor (where the power and computer is). Heard of this as an issue before?
_________________
Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

TheVoiceOfBob · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:00 am Post subject:

bobsouer · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:01 am Post subject:

Caryn,

First, I'm sorry I wasn't able to help you with this problem the other day. Second, having ones cables clustered together (power and audio) is a common source of noise in the recording chain. Third, it's significant that you hear the noise go away when you take your USB extender cable out of the picture, even though some other problems surface when you do so.

Try moving your cables so that, if they all have to get to the same place, at least they are not right next to one another and see if that makes a difference.
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CarynClark · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:

Thanks guys. Bob, please, don't be sorry. You were a huge help the other night!!!

I've also been told by my local audio center about getting a ground lift. Though in my internet reading this afternoon, they refer to the ground lift helping a 60hz interference, and from what I can tell, that would be a hum. My noise is not a hum. It's a whine.

All my cables are balanced.

I'll get my hubby to bore another hole into my shelf where my Symetrix and Zephyr are so that the power cables can run down to the floor to the Monster Power strip separate from my audio cables running to my board and MBox. They'll still be parallel though, but a good 12 inches apart. Will that help?
_________________
Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

bobsouer · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:20 am Post subject:

Caryn,

I'm not an expert in these matters, but I would think 12 inches would be plenty. The main thing, though, is to be sure any USB or audio cables are not running right next to any power cables.
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Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
ISDN, Source Connect, phone patch

Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:28 am Post subject:

TheVoiceOfBob · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:46 am Post subject:

CarynClark · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject:

Wow, you guys are awesome!! If it weren't for you guys, I think I would have run screaming out of my studio.

I did a lot of plugging and unplugging to isolate the issue, and I'm pretty confident it's the mBox. I plugged my phones right into one of the mon out jacks, and could still hear the whine. But, I guess it could be my board. ? Not sure how to test that. ?

Ok, here's what I've done:

- I'm no longer using the USB extender... I moved my MBox down a shelf so that it's on the desk with me.

- I've ordered the Monster USB cable. I know, I'm probably throwing my money away, but Digi specifically noted that particular cable in the troubleshooting document about the whine, so I figure they must have some success with it. Or, they own Monster. Smile

- I've moved all of my power cords so that they're not touching my audio cables. So, now my power cords for my Symetrix, Zephyr and little board are running in front of my desk, and audio cables all run behind (except for my mic cable). Unfortunately, they are quite near my mic cable, but they're intersecting at, oh, maybe a 60 degree angle. Best I can do.

The result of this is.... I still have the whine, but it's definitely MUCH more faint through my headphones.

The last resort will be ditching ProTools (which, I'm used to using) and using Adobe Audition. Then I don't need the mBox, right? Or do I?
_________________
Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

bobsouer · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject:

Caryn,

You wouldn't need the MBox, but you would need some kind of professional audio interface.
_________________
Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
ISDN, Source Connect, phone patch

CarynClark · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject:

Ah, yes... I've discussed the use of Audition with F2 inthe past, but it was in October.
_________________
Caryn Clark... The Hip Chick Voice!

"A positive mental attitude and having faith in your ability is quite different from being irresponsible and downright stupid." - Dave

Jeffrey Kafer · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject:

Dumping Pro Tools would open a whole new can of worms. The hardware and software are so linked together that other options are met with little success.

OK, so Audition supports ASIO drivers, which are a fairly universal kind of driver. I believe DD has published an ASIO driver for the Mbox, but I don't know how well it works with non-Pro Tools software. You can download ASIO4ALL which supposedly works with the Mbox2. Then in audio hardware setup of Audition, change the driver to ASIO4ALL.

At this point, I'd troubleshoot your problem before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Chuck Davis · Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject:

I had a somewhat similar problem awhile back. Rather than the "whine" coming thru the M-Box I'd hear it come from the native sound card on my PC's motherboard...but only when PT was running. It's something like a "carrier frequency" bleed from the USB bus to the integrated audio stuff. Solution? Mute the soundcard output on the board when I'm running PT.

Caryn, chances are what you're hearing is related to this...hence Digi's recomendation of a better shielded USB cable. I tried the same one here...made no difference but...the problem is in the PC..not the cable for me.

When I upgrade mobo and processor down the road I'll just use a separate/better shielded sound card and shut off any integrated audio on the new mobo if it's so equipped.
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