VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[schaer]

I am working on my website and I am having a discussion with myself as to wether or not I should post a basic rate sheet. I know Bill does, but what are your thoughts?



Best,

Bernard

[Deirdre]

I don't, because some of the things I do are "flexible" according to the market.
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[billelder]

Bernard,



I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on this. I will tell you that even though they are posted, most folks don't bother to look. [grin]

[Frank F]

Although I feel that discussing rates is kinda like discussing politics, religion and sex; I do have an opinion.



Personally, I have a posted rate card (for my clients). I use it like most radio, television stations and hotel rooms use their "posted rates". It is there to let folks know what I am worth - in my opinion. If you cannot afford my rates and feel you do not want to "belly up to the bar" - move on and find someone whom you can afford. If you are willing to negotiate, then let's talk.



Hotel rooms have a posted rate, required by law. One room I was privileged to stay in recently had a "posted" rate of $400.00 a night. I spent $29.95 plus taxes.



TV and radio stations have a posted rate card - usually for national clients, but locals may see it also. Locally one radio station has a "posted" rate of $325.00 for a :30 second spot. I just bought prime-time on the station for $80.00/spot. (I do more than just voice-over - I have several other businesses...).



With those thoughts in mind - ask yourself a few simple questions about posting your rates:

1) Are your rates higher or lower than the "going" rate in your market?

2) How do your rates relate to national, or regional clients, would your local clients be willing to pay the same rate if they went to a regional airing of their spots?

3) How often do you change your rates? Do you negotiate?

4) Are you willing to "hold" this rate for a period of time? Remember, you can always lower your rates, but raising your rates is extremely difficult.

5) Are you comfortable with your (soon to be posted) rates? Are they too high, are they too low... are they - just ri-i-g-ht?

6) Are your rates diffeerent than what you have charged your clients in the past few months? If yes, how are you going to explain your rates to your current clients?



... there are many more, but you get the idea.



It's all relative when it comes to money/rates. Your relatives will want all they can get.



Frank F

[mcm]

On the related topic of what to say when people ask, "what are your rates?" .... I have heard so many times, "don't quote first" and "don't make the first move". I'm squeamish about saying "this is what I charge" because that's the way I am. I'm way too used to getting nothing for what I do. One of my mentors on this board whom I will not name since if others knew how much he has helped me they will plague him day and night for help also and he won't get any rest, has more or less talked me out of this mindset, or at least I'm trying to act as if I have a different mindset. And I have noticed that when I respond vaguely and mention some of the many factors that go into the calculations, and say that I'll work within their budget, I don't hear back. Last week somebody asked about 2 specific projects, and I took the bull by the horns and gave a rate, thinking I'd never hear from that producer again. But I did, they are waiting to hear about funding for a documentary, and asked ME to keep in touch with THEM. Not the "I'll call you" or the deafening silence I was expecting.



Sometimes people just need a ballpark figure. They might be applying for funding and need a number to put in their budget. So you're doing them a favor by letting them know. And you can always be flexible. So, at least until I undergo another paradigm shift, I'm going to give some numbers when people ask me what I charge.

[kgenus]

I'm in an area of the US where industrial work exceeds commercial work, where more modeling agents take on voiceover talent to increase their roster, where hi-tech firms, government agencies, the Army and Marines seem like your biggest clients - welcome to Washington, DC. Somehow with all the odds stacked up, I do periodically take on work with an inhouse agency for a cluster of five stations, mainly when they're in a bind. [MUSIC - DRAMATIC] This is where my story begins....



When I began helping ... said stations ... I sent a request to some online lists requesting demo cds and rate cards from non-union talent. I was flooded with CDs and put them in two piles, no rate card or those who wrote "work within my budget" in often verbose introductions and the rate card or "other" pile.



I swept through the first round of auditions listening for delivery and production quality. First those with a rate card, cataloged, then thsoe with no rate card. I'm not one to get caught up on the way the voice sounds unless it's really something way out there.



At some point, the no rate card pile starts to tell you these people are not providing a rate card because 97% have not done the work or do not believe what they are doing works, who knows. What I do know is that I do not have time for a second engagement to negotiate a price, so if it is a voice talent I think will work, I offer them the inhouse talent fee, which is $10-$35 for a :60 read. Some respond, most do not. As a producer, its great, as a voice talent, it really sucks and once you start at that rate, as Frank said, for a while you remain at that rate.



You should be able to create a feeling of confidence - you should be able to tell anyone three things that makes your voice sell their product, why they should work with you and your rates. Those who can not confidently sell that to themselves should see it as a red flag. You will quickly learn that if you do not treat it like a business, somone else will, so it is worth taking a little extra time to come up with some kind of rates. You'll get very comfortable before you know it.



I'm a very shrewd negotiator who has no problem paying little to nothing when I am producing a spot. When voicing a spot, I have no problem accepting $10 if I have failed to state my rates, it means my internal sales manager failed to do his job and another brain cell is about to get it. Fortunately, the recently hired cell came up with a sweeping idea, print Avery Labels with rate cards on them and stick them in the CD liner. It takes away from the professionally printed look slightly, but if a rate change needs to happen, the CD liners will reflect that change.



If you do not know how to come up with a rate card, say each line out loud then thump head immediately using thumb and index finger, when finished, contemplate on the tree of woe (I find the TV works):



- "Yeah, these voice coaching sessions are payin' for themselves."

- "How much is that microphone again, yeah the U87, that's cool."

- "Nice preamp duuude...."

- "The <software a of your choice> upgrade is sweet!"



Joking aside, it does not matter where you live or what equipment is in your studio, rate cards do exist and are required. Your rates should reflect a world market. If you do not want to make them publicly available on a web page, set up an auto-responce email and a link on your site so interested parties can still get your rates. Whether it is you or your agent, someone is taking the first step, and you should always be prepared for it.



Think of it as creating your own luck and remember to have fun in the process.



Hope that helps,

Kevin
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Genus

[Dennis O'Neill]

Not to sound paranoid, but rates can be a can-o-worms, if uttered in a general sense.



Beware of the 'project'. Make sure it's the voice only, cold. (No music or sfx.) I've been caught with "need another female voice to read the address (expecting you to supply), "where's the music?" (expecting you to supply), and "OK, can you copy 28 CD's and ship them to...(or) send us the finished product (CD, FTP, or MP3), and we'll take care of it" (meaning that you'll be heard coast to coast). The odd Satanic client will then blame you for the poor quality, to make you feel as if you're gouging him or her. (She would then be a Satan-ess??)



Personally, I find that knowing the Finished Product is what to base a rate on. Trying to formulate that for everyone to see on a website can get screwy and intimidating, though can be a necessary marketing tool, and everyone should take a sec to figure out how much their time is worth.

"$50 per hr for your own personal enjoyment - any reproduction, copy infringment without the expressed, written consent"....anyone? Why not!



There seems to be that fine line. Go low, and you look cheap - but within some budgets, possibly garnering you bits & pieces. Go high, and you appear professional, but possibly price yourself out. I've found the 'too high' route actually works better, but the demands rise with that. I'm inclined to agree (for what that's worth) with most, and DO put some BASIC rates up, without getting too complicated. If you're worth it, price yourself a bit above. (Just back it up!)



-den

[audio'connell]

Let me get this straight...we're supposed to charge for voice over services?!



Oh man, NOW you tell me!
_________________
- Peter
audioconnell Voice Over Talent
Your friendly, neighborhood voice over talent

[Deirdre]

Tom Richards describes rates thus:



Fast, Cheap, Good.



Pick two.
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[Edo]