VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Neill78]

Hi everyone,

I'm a grad student in linguistics and I'm going to try to get some field recording done while I'm in Japan this spring. I realize this isn't what most of you do here, but the recording I'll be doing has similar issues, I think.

I'll be recording natural conversations between two or 3 participants indoors. This will take place in normal rooms in a house; I have little control over ambient noise. I'm looking for a mic that is:

1) good for human voice - clear, natural sound (I sometimes have to do limited phonetic analysis, I must do transcription)
2) good pickup range, but not so sensitive that I get a lot of ambient/background noise (this is all natural conversation so I usually can't choose the location - sometimes there are kids or TVs in the background)
3) relatively discreet to avoid freaking out the participants (boundary/lavalier/shotgun?)
4) pretty cheap ($150 or less, I'll consider used mics if you have them for sale!)

I've used my lab's Marantz PMD-660 a lot but it ends up being a lot of extra stuff to carry, and I don't like traveling with other people's stuff. I'm strongly considering getting a Centrance MicPort Pro so I can use my notebook computer or eee PC, which I'll be taking with me anyway. I've got concerns about that too, though, because I'm encountering some weird clicks using my PC's internal sound card and I'm worried I'll have the same problem with the MicPort Pro. I'll leave that for another thread, though.

If you have some mic suggestions, please reply! Remember that I would like to get away from big hand-held/studio style mics because they're so big and noticeable. I have no preference between dynamic/condenser as long as the overall sound is good/natural.

Thanks,

Neill

[David Swinehart]

Neill,
How's the recording environment? I ask because it might be the difference between using a very non-intrusive boundary mic in the middle of a desk vs. something like a small shotgun mic or pencil condenser. If you're in a noisy room, boundary mics are out. On the other hand, if the room is quiet, a boundary mic (perhaps something like an Audio Technica U851-R) might be just the ticket, and they're fairly inexpensive.

Personally, I use a RODE NTG-1 shotgun for recording conversations. It's definitely large enough to be noticed by everyone, but you can get away with using a few feet away without picking up too much noise. An acquaintance of mine also uses an MXL 603 for recording interviews in people's homes/offices with good results.

The MicPortPro should be bypassing your laptop's soundcard, so I wouldn't have any concerns that you'll experience the same static issues...
_________________
David Swinehart
an actual Dave
Kinetic Sound Labs

[Neill78]

[Mike Sommer]

In this modern age I don't believe many people are "freaked out" by the presents of a microphone, unless they are from rural communities or are shy. The trick is to set up the equipment and not fuss about it. So as long as the conversation is engaging the mics will all but be forgotten.

Since you will not have control of the room inviroment yor best option is to use lavaliere mics: Sennheiser MKE2-P or Tram TR-50 are both small and widely used in the film and television industry. The TR-50 are often used as "plant" mics on sets and in cars during shoots. Of course the mics can be used with a cordless transmitter and receiver to reduce the number of cables running all over the place. This set up can be pricey but when your trying to transcribe an inaudible word or phrase at 4 AM, it will be all worth it.

The next option is to use table top mics on stands.
Electro Voice RE-16 have a nice directional characteristic that generates little off-axis coloration while providing the greatest rejection of unwanted sounds. Place one in front of each speaker and you will have audio magic.
Electro-Voice RE50 is another option that is the standard of news reporters, but not as effective as I believe the RE16 would be.
Shure SM58 is another fine option.
All of the above can be connected to wireless devices.

The shotgun mic is nice but not be most effective, due to the fact that the mic needs to be directed to the speakers mouth, thusly an endless swiveling boom mic that will more then attract attention: Rode NTG-1, Sanken CS-3E, Sennheiser MKH-416.

I would not use a computer as my recording device. In field situations your best option is to use a dedicated recorder. In this case I would turn to a Fostex FR-2 or FR-2LE digital recorders. If you go with a wireless mic system the digital recorder and the receiver/mixer (and Lav Mics) will fit in a single shoulder field bag, that can be set on a table in front of you as you monitor everything visually and audibly with earbud headphone.

This equipment can be rented or purchased outright. If you rent, monthly rates are always better as are multiple month rates. If you purchase, you can practically regain all your investment in resale. The advantage of renting is knowing that if there is a breakdown the equipment can be replaced at little or no cost, and rental insurance will cover stolen equipment. Even if you do purchase your equipment I would look into obtaining insurance for your gear; their are companies that specialize in production insurance.

If this is for school, I'm sure you know your can obtain grants and funding for such research and thusly cover the cost of your equipment.

[Neill78]

[Frank F]

I have a simpler concept for you, and in light of today's travel restrictions a lot of specialized equipment can set off alarm bells.

The Samson H4 http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMH4 is a small portable audio recording device allowing you to record 24-bit/96 kHz digital audio as well as in MP3 format with bitrates up to 320kbps. The H4 also includes two combination XLR-1/4-inch input jacks with phantom power for use with any external microphones of your choice.

The H4 records on Secure Digital (SD) media up to two gigabyte for ease of use in transferring audio to your computer with an SD reader interface. If you choose this route for your recorder, bring extra SD cards just in case. They are priced at less than $10.00 for a 2 GB card these days.

The H4 also serves as your USB audio interface, allowing direct recording to your computer when and if you desire.

There are some limitations with the H4 not commonly noted, but they are not substantial. One of them being no ganged stereo 2-track mode, this means limited recording time at 24 bit.

The price listed in the link is not the highest, and not the lowest price available but is about what you might expect to pay for this unit.

Carry an additional small format shotgun mic or two. Such as the battery powered ATR-55 (around $50 to $60.00 USD each) and some microphone cable and you have a very good, very simple, very portable recording studio for the road.

Lavaliers are not a good choice as people tend to freak out at the thought of having this thing attached to them. Additionally most lavalier microphones are VERY omni-directional and pick-up every sound within a city block. O.K., I exaggerate a little, but they are not really a good choice for your needs and desires.

There are many options available, including mini-disk or an iPod or similar player-recorder device which can serve as your recorder, but for the price and features; the Samson H4 is one of the best buys.

Speaking of iPods, Belkin has developed a device to add to an iPod which makes the little toy become and XLR capable recorder for use with professional microphones. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001B4GG02/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=2842293449&ref=pd_sl_51ulwkk6tp_e

Or, for a bit more money you can make your iPod a mixer and recording combination with the Belkin Tune Studio http://www.crutchfield.com/p_599F8Z109/Belkin-TuneStudio.html?tp=241

You have a lot of choices, but as you are flying and traveling in a foreign country, I would suggest you keep it simple and keep it light-weight.

Unobtrusive will be the key for much of what you are recording, so the smaller - the better too.

Toodles

F2
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Neill78]

I actually tested the H4 when we were buying equipment for the lab. We decided not to go with it because there is an issue with electrical whine from the batteries. It was last year, so I don't remember exactly, but I think it only happened when using external mics.

[Mike Sommer]

If people are moving about you're not left with many options, unless you wire the whole house for sound --talk about not cheap. Wiring each player with a wireless lav is about your only option. As far a ambient noise this is not that prevalent with the mics I listed. You're going to have room noise with whatever mic you use, I would shoot for the best option of trying to capture the voice of the subject, and that means individual micing --the the mic as close to the mouth as possible.

Whether you use a lav or any other mic there is going to be a certain degree of acclamation to the whole process for these people. So it would be a matter of them getting comfortable with the gear, by explaining to them how it works. I would demonstrate with your voice first. Then if they op to, let them try. Warning: Nobody likes the sound of there own voice, this may be startling to them. But just make it fun. Of course I'm sure you know all of this.

The H4 has its limitation and since it only has 2 xlr inputs you will need a mixer --thusly this would be solved with the wireless set up-- but you would be relegated to using the line input, which on the H4 is very unsatisfactory. There are a new batch of smiler handheld digital recorders out now, there is Yamaha CX, and the Alesis ProTrack for example.

The Fostex FR-2 is your best bet. And as I said the mics mixer and recorder can be put into one shoulder bag.

As for transporting I never take my gear on the plain. I ship it over in advance via Fedex or whomever. As a matter of fact I do this with all my luggage too. This cuts down on customs checks and lost or misdirected bags.

[Frank F]

The "whine" you describe is apparent when using phantom powered microphones; this is another reason why I suggested using the ATR-55's.

Or you could consider a dynamic microphone for the system. Behringer XM8500 http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-XM8500-Microphone?sku=270490 is priced under $20.00 and sounds similar to the Shure SM58, but for much less cost.

Do you already own an personal .mp3 player/recorder? There are several adapters which help connect professional microphones to your little device. The Beachtek DXA-2s (although designed for video cameras) will work as long as you have a microphone input built-in to the .mp3 player/recorder. http://cgi.ebay.com/BeachTek-DXA-2S-Compact-XLR-Adaptor_W0QQitemZ220366111376QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Cables_Cords?hash=item220366111376&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

I own a Sansa, so I am biased and do not know much about iPod's, so I cannot suggest this item specifically. However, for video cameras the Beachtek's work well.

I take a mini-disc recorder along when I travel for recording sound effects and other linear based things. The device is small and compact and along with my Beachtek DXA-2s and ATR-55's I get great recordings. However, the mini-disc's are becoming hard to find these days.

You do not need multiple tracks or inputs for your project/quest, so recording in stereo is probably the best option for your needs. Today there are several hand-held "voice" recorders which record in stereo are solid state, and simple, some only record in mono - just do your research.

Another simple and easy microphone which is not XLR is the Sony ECM-DS70P. This is not obtuse and also sounds - fair.

Remember the K.I.S.S. system and Keep It Simple.

Toodles

F2
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[Ed Gambill]

I have worked with some folks who have done what you are wanting to do.

I sent you a PM that is more detailed

If you are going to transscribe you need good quality.

Edirol UA25EX for I/O $239

Peluso ECMC6 with Hypercardiod cap $344.00

Audacity software (free)

$583 Total. Its simple and not too costly

I have a simular package the I cary in my LapTop Case.
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Esse quam videri "To be rather than to seem"
www.SaVoa.org No. 07000 Member AES

[Neill78]

I do own a Sansa 8gb player but it has no mic inputs and the internal mic is totally unusable. In the future I will probably buy a dedicated recorder but for now I can't justify the cost, plus I haven't tried a unit that has acceptable preamps yet, except for a customized Marantz PMD-660, but that's a $600 recorder with $200 worth of modifications.

It looks like I will be able to borrow a recorder (one of the modified Marantzes -- if I can fit it in my luggage) and a handful of mics to play with, plus I have decided to buy a Centrance MicPort Pro for myself as it will be very useful for my teaching job as well as Skyping, and from what I've read in reviews, it's got beautifully clean preamps!

I've made a list of all the mics that have been suggested and I will be doing more research on them. There have been some great suggestions here -- if you've got more, please keep them coming!

Neill