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Deirdre
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13023
Location: Camp Cooper
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 Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Dancing Naked in a Minefield |
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Beloveds:
You may know I have been in a virtual fistfight with AFTRA over freelance work, billing, and signatory crap. I recently had a set-to with my local office about how ungodly expensive it is to use a paymaster and finally got the key to the problem: All union work is based on on an employer/employee relationship.
This relationship is valid for work that requires the talent to go somewhere to work, but not for home studio freelance stuff in my opinion. I want to propose a work-for-hire, W-9, 1099 style contractor arrangement that will allow home studio peeps to claim the work they do, have it count toward their pension and welfare fund and pay dues on it.
I have been percolating ideas in the last month or so, and met with some entertainment lawyers in Boston to go over the points of my idea and get some feedback on its sturdiness. The lawyers agreed it had merit and because it is actually a money-making proposition for AFTRA, the lawyers think it stands a chance of being received well by AFTRA. However, we'd need is a great deal of support from members and possibly, hopeful members.
Writing a manifesto isn't an easy process if you start with that as your object, but recent activity on "another VO board" gave me the perfect opportunity to start dropping ideas into the stream of the U.S. VO consciousness.
Here is the Yahoo board. It's a members-only board, so if you're not already part of the group, you won't be able to see the messages.
I want my own family here to know what I am up to and open the same discussion here. A number of folks from the VO-BB also contribute to the Yahoo board, and I don't want you to feel as though you need to replicate your posts here, but you may if you wish.
Be prepared: this is lengthy stuff. Some of it is from that discussion on the Yahoo boards but all of THAT is from letters I've written to others, and some of the segments will restate what I've already said.
I've got it segmented to show separate missives.
*******
Are we having the right argument?
The ongoing discussion of ficore should perhaps focus on the plight of freelance VO people with home studios. It's not that we want to undercut the fee scale of union work, we just want to work, period.
Much of the work that we rustle up comes from producers/clients who for myriad reasons aren't signatory to union contracts. Much of this work pays very very well.
As it stands, SOMEONE needs to be signatory to the contract in order to be legit.
In order to "make it union" we can employ the use of a signatory paymaster as an intermediary. They handle the billing. Swell. Once it all trickles down, though, we lose so much money in this effort to "make it union" that it is suicidal.
Must we pay and pay and pay for the privilege to work?
****
Why is all union work bound to an employer/employee model?
The biggest pain with out-of-large-market freelance work is that there is no provision for a W-9/1099-style setup for people who never set foot in a producer's studio.
*****
Here's my idea: with the totally freelance VO stuff, make a W-9/contractor mechanism, that allows for a talent to inform the union of work in the pipeline, show the emails or faxes from the party that requests the work, have a simple work-for-hire contract that specifies the work that's being requested and where it will be used, the price agreed upon and date of service. The talent can have the audio guy or producer or whoever send the check to the union office where they can do their whatever-the-hell it is they do, and they can send the check on to the talent with a bill stating what the H&R contribution and dues would be.
However, since it's technically illegal at the moment for a talent to contribute directly to their own H&R fund, perhaps the union will have to collect the funds in escrow on behalf of the actor and then send on the net. In that case, the producer/audio guy would make the check out to "AFTRA for Cindy Lou Actor" , or whatever will legally work. Then, AFTRA's minions can send the money to the fund and tender the rest to the talent.
*********
I want to make it clear that I am talking about non-broadcast stuff in all my current contributions to this thread.
The business of hiring a signatory paymaster to handle billing is a work-around that is apparently supposed to be a secret. I was nearly tarred and feathered at the AFTRA convention in Philly for talking about it, and was recently warned by an exec in my local union office to not talk about it.
Hmm.
Here’s how it works, and how the money breaks down.
Let’s say I invoice a client $1900 for two textbook scripts.
If I did this with a simple bill, I'd eventually have to pay 15% for FICA plus income tax.
Let's say that is 16%.
That would be $304.
FICA is $285.
This leaves me with $1311 to keep in the bank.
In order to be "on the card"/ union legal/whatever, I must have an “employer of record”, in this case, the signatory paymaster. That $1900 gets the treatment called "backing out". They determine what my gross talent income can be within the moneys received.
Of the $1900, the gross amount to me will be $1360.
The Paymaster "employer" pays out ~ $218: 16% of $1360 for employer-paid tax, worker’s comp, and half the FICA tax.
They also pay $201 to AFTRA H&R.
They ALSO charge me $121 for the privilege of doing my bookkeeping.
This leaves me with $1360 gross. After withholding and FICA and Medicare, I have $999.
I get to pay dues on this.
This work around just cost me $339. None of the off-the top tax of $218 counts toward my earnings at all— not for AFTRA or for Social Security, and I got to pay $121 for someone else to do my billing just to keep the union happy.
Now I understand the need for an employer/employee relationship when a talent is traveling to a workplace, or has ongoing employment that can be done from a home studio.
However, with most of the work I get, I am my own director, I set my own hours, I do all the negotiating with the client. I am the only one with any control over my “wages and working conditions”. I have all the responsibility but no apparently no standing with the union.
Sometimes, the "client" is just another guy trying to get a job done, like an independent audio director for a video game.
Let’s say Joe Audio needs a voice to sing a line of melody and he calls me. He's wiling to pay me $500. Super! The union would never let me do this because it doesn't fit their model— it's not enough money for an "hour" session, plus all the tax, H&R, etc. Never mind that I can do it anytime I want in the next 2 days and upload it to an FTP site when I'm done.
And so, here's the rub— there's no provision for work-for-hire in the AFTRA/SAG system. Even with AFTRA's OPO (One Production Only) setup, the contract is unwieldy and colossally invasive. AFTRA doesn't see it this way, of course, and can't understand where the trouble is in asking Joe Audio for his Social Security number and his bank account tracking numbers.
Their reason for this Byzantine setup is to prevent people from "scamming the system". Some guys will get signatory status, and then claim they are employing themselves with bogus work, generating pretend paperwork which increases their ability to receive health insurance. And God forbid someone should maliciously contribute to the pension fund.
But a work-for-hire arrangement isn’t part of that problem. It’s real work that simply doesn’t fit any of the models the union insists on.
My biggest beef with the unions is that they spend too much of their resources, time and money, to tell me what I CAN'T do for work, and to find ways to punish people who do real work for a good price, but which has something unusual in its pedigree . They would rather have us be Wal-Mart greeters than work as freelance VOs. It's amazing to me that the IRS trusts me more than my own damned union.
I do my part to keep fees respectably high. But the current system costs far too much— and without mechanisms for home-studio talent, Rule 1 is virtual restraint of trade.
***
about games in particular to a union exec:
The issue/disconnect/problem is of the structure of actor/talent as "employee".
There are some situations where that simply will not fit, such as when you are work-for-hire, working for a guy who is work-for-hire.
The game guys who hire me are freelance audio directors. They are independent contractors, looking to hire a voice as an independent contractor.
Unless we can come up with a mechanism for that relationship, this middle-ground of game creation will be a place of pure money loss for the talents we're looking to protect. It costs anywhere between 6.5-to-10% of the GROSS to have a paymaster handle billing.
That is too damned much money. It's confiscatory, and is essentially paying for the privilege of working.
I cannot possibly be the only person with this type of work situation!
The freelance audio guy has a budget. The talent and the audio guy agree on the budget, and even with these independent guys, the audio budgets can be generous. However, the talent must use some kind of extraordinary signatory entity in spite of the fact that the freelance talent is the only part of this equation in charge of the wages and working conditions. This is a "Mother May I?" work around which cuts the bottom out of the talent's purse.
It sucks.
These independent audio guys have no intention of becoming sigs, they hate the unions. The other political bullshit of "residuals" for game vox is going be deeply damaging to the future of using union talent in games.
This from recent correspondence with one of my audio pals:
| Quote: | Union Voice actors - I only use them when I absolutely have to. Television,
Movies and broadcast contracts are completely different than video games.
These unions and their representatives generally don't understand the video
game business model, and try to keep all the rights and perks of their tv,
movie, etc. gigs, which we just don't do.
SAG has recently voted to demand residuals on all game voice contracts,
which pretty much means they'll be doing a lot less video game work in the
future, since NO ONE gets residuals in this business.
If [an audio director] in a union project, that usually means the talent is contracted
through someone else (ie: A movie title, where the SAG project is actually
the Movie project). AFTRA doesn't understand video games, and they think they can push us around. |
I'm just letting you know what the people who are doing a lot of this audio work are saying.
In the cities, it's a snap because everybody play by the rules. If you want talent that's any good, you have to have union contracts. duh.
But elsewhere, there is a huge-and-growing Middle Earth area of independents. Fewer of these guys will be interested in even thinking about using union talent because basically, they don't have to. They can hire anyone else on earth and not have to jump thru invasive contractual hoops.
It seems a bit loony that it's easier for an American Company to hire an Englishman in Scotland to do a VO job than it is to hire an American union VO.
***********
About game audio, to a pal:
{I'm not sure how much game work Bettye has done, but she does bring up an interesting point: there are certainly plenty of game companies looking for good voices for "vertical slices" and demos to help get funding for their game. I figure it's about the same as trailer voices who spiff the first read to the trailer production house— they call it the "scratch track" even though it's a fully rendered, final product. The trailer is essentially up for sale, and if that trailer house gets the job, the VO gets paid. Hell, EVERYONE involved gets paid.
That's legit in the VO biz.}
A good number of guys involved in creating these game demos have decent budgets, but they're not PRODUCERS, they're audio guys— and the unions make it damnably hard to work for someone in the middle part of game production.
It's not very likely an audio director is going to be interested in becoming a "signatory" to a union contract, even though he has money in his budget that would pay for union talent. He's just a work-for-hire guy in the pipeline. He's a work-for-hire guy looking for a voice on a work-for-hire basis and this is where the unions fall off the face of the earth. Everything the unions cover has to qualify as "employment", and Joe Audio Director is not going to become a corporation and hire a payroll company just to please AFTRA or SAG. Unless the unions can get a grip on the way game audio is produced, we union voices in the field stand to lose a lot of work and a whole hell of a lot of money.
*****
AFTRA has got to get INTO the business for helping people who are working within the union guidelines of pay, and get OUT of the business of punishing people for working "off the card", even though they are keeping their rates high.
AFTRA should cover small-scale work. It should actively promote accessibility to union coverage for all types of work without requiring cumbersome contracts for every session. This authoritarian paperwork necessity keeps too many producers from being willing to hire union talent. People with home studios should ALL be able to self sig, since they are the only ones in charge of their work environment. AFTRA should be available to chase down non-payors based on a regular, legal paper trail, such as email agreements, not multi-page contracts. A hired lawyer can do this, why not our hired union executives?
AFTRA needs to allow people to claim their work, and not assume that its members are criminals who are looking to "scam the system". If you expect your members to be frauds, why allow them to be members in the first place? AFTRA is losing unbelievable amounts of money that people would happily contribute to their pension and health funds, but because AFTRA wants a mother-may-I piece of paper for every session they'll never see this money. On the other hand, AFTRA expends union funds scrutinizing honest actors and punishing them for "maliciously" contributing to their own H&R funds.
If AFTRA wants to survive, it has to completely change its model, break with SAG, and adopt the method EQUITY in England uses.
Too many people hate and fear the union that is supposedly in place to protect them. This is stupid, and counter-productive.
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Jeffrey Kafer
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Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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Location: Location, Location!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:18 am Post subject: |
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slight itsy bitsy correction of what your game audio guy said: Game developers do earn royalties based on sales above a certain threshold and that royalty is usually spread around to the team. However, they've toiled for 3,4,5 years on a project, while the voice talent only comes in for a day or two. Voice talent should not get a piece of that pie, since unlike movies and TV, voice work does not sell games, gameplay does.
Anyway, just wanted to add that, but don't want to derail the point of the conversation.
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todd ellis
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Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Rule 1 is virtual restraint of trade. |
truer words were never spoke. i had this discussion with the aftra guy at VOICE '07 - unless the union realizes it's not 1977 they are doomed to a slow extinction due to death and attrition.
as a non-union guy in fly-over country i'm doing quite well on my own, thankyouverymuch, in one of the worst economies in recent history. i believe this is possible because of a couple of things: (1) i can do what i do best without the heavy hand of "mother may i" restricting me from making, perhaps, a bit less money than someone in new york or la. it only makes sense to me that, if i want to, i can charge a little less for the same work because my cost of doing business is lower - a gallon of milk is less, property taxes are less, et. al. it's the same reason (one of them) volkswagen choose to build a plant in chattanooga, tn than illinois - it costs less to do business there. (2) because of the flexibility of my 24/7/365 work schedule i can turn my marketing dynamic on a dime to take advantage of emerging markets. i don't know about anybody else, but i've had the best 1Q EVAH this year. i pay my taxes & i save money on my own. which is why, unless i get a fed-ex with a big stack of money in it with a note saying "you can keep this if you join the union.", i'll remain ... non. i never say never - that day may come - but until then, i don't really feel like i'm missing anything.
(((deebs - feel free to share this with whomever you want - i don't wish anyone ill - this is just my take on a situation i have done a lot of thinking on.)))
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Gregory Best
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 04 Aug 2005
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Location: San Diego area (east of Connie and south and east of Bailey)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Wow!! Interesting concept. AFTRA and SAG must come into the 21st century or fade away. I so hoped to get to the point of joining the union, however, in these times I don't know how they will survive unless they adapting and completely changing thier busniess model. It reminds of The Big 3 from Detroit with their overstuffed huge chairs and a stoggie. Times have changed.
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I salute you dear D.B.!
There are some minor solutions which also need be addressed, I will try to be succinct and only offer a question or two - later I will present my version of the solution. So here are some questions about one particular issue:
Think: "qualifications".
What does it take to become a plumber, a brick mason, an electrician or ...?
Then, think about what many have done to hang their shingle out and say "I am a Voice Over Talent/Artist/Overist".
What ARE our qualifications in this industry? What makes me or you capable of doing this or that gig versus the secretary or mail clerk at a business? What tangible item can I show which reveals my skills and talent (no comments from the peanut-gallery here) to those who hire me or potentially desire to hire a voice over person?
Payment issues are only one facet of a very problematic stage encompassing union organizations in today's society. I believe, D.B. and others have taken the first step toward demonstrating a new awareness is necessary for unions to survive in the 21st century.
And folks, I am a union pro-active person.
Toodles
F2
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bobbinbeamo
M&M
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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Location: Wherever I happen to be
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: |
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DB,
When I was the Executive Director for the AFTRA/SAG San Diego office, (1989-1994 when there was a real brick and mortar office) we had a lot of Signatories and Stations under AFTRA . The topic of discussion would come up all the time at the National Board level and at every convention. The OPO's at that time were completely phased out for the local commercials codes because the "Cities" aka NY, Chi, LA. felt these letters undermined the strength of the union,, fearing Signatories would diminish, if they only had to sign once...and could produce union and non union projects without having to sign toe Contract... and as a result eliminate the "union only "producer mantle, which they felt too restrictive.
Furthermore, the local codes were phased out and if a member did a commercial for a small market, the producer ,if you'd have a willing Sig, would have to pay the National Commercials Contract rates. In no short order,Signatories balked and wouldn't sign the National only contract. When you sign the Union's contract, every production must be union. And the local Sigs went away. Stations decertified. The local office closed some years ago, so you can only imagine what little union work is here anymore.
Now according to AFTRA LA, the OPO may be used again for commercials, industrials. I'm not sure about games.
I'd love something positive to happen, DB. Seems like you're on the right track. May the force be with you, so to speak. Members all over the country , including former station staffers could use a way to work union jobs!
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bobbinbeamo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Sorry about the typos in the last post. I was typing so furiously. This is an issue that's very close to a lot of members, and I've seen the disenchantment grow over time. Anyway, off my soap box. Peace Y'all.
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dhouston67
VO-BB Intarwebz Glossary Administrator
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: Right next door to Sandra Bullock. No, really.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| JeffreyKafer wrote: | slight itsy bitsy correction of what your game audio guy said: Game developers do earn royalties based on sales above a certain threshold and that royalty is usually spread around to the team. However, they've toiled for 3,4,5 years on a project, while the voice talent only comes in for a day or two. Voice talent should not get a piece of that pie, since unlike movies and TV, voice work does not sell games, gameplay does.
Anyway, just wanted to add that, but don't want to derail the point of the conversation. |
Also not wanting to risk derailment, but --- as I've said before --- the supposed failure of VO to sell games sure doesn't deter gamers from flaming bad voice acting on their message boards. Since the nature of game development and voice acting are worlds apart, and the respective time commitments are necessarily quite different, that's a bit of a flimsy argument.
IMHO, talent should receive royalties, but Deebs is right that the mechanics of payment must undergo a swift sea change.
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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Also, good acting may not SELL a game, but bad voice acting may keep people from buying a game.
OMG— www.audioatrocities.com
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Gregory Best
The Gates of Troy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Interesting dialog and good ideas. I hope the right people are listening (reading). Deebs is anyone we know of from AFTRA registered? Since this post is in "chat" anyone can see it.
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Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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I don't think any AFTRA suits are registered.
That's indeed why I put this in Chat.
xo
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: |
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You do realize the title of this thread brings great pictures into ones head?
So many issues which are presented AFTRA of late are ultimately decided by the non-sister union of SAG (which wants to do their own thing anyway). I believe the unions need to listen to their constituents rather than to their own greed. However, there is a pecking order to be investigated and dealt with; which means their are several large issues before the unions prior to dealing with the payment process.
One item of note with the payment issue: determine who the unions are targeting with the current methods - I guarantee it is not the members of their own organization.
Toodles
F2
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Lizden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Deebs,
As you know, I've been in on the Yahoo discussion, but like Todd, have come away with: it's just not worth it for me.
I had been told in the past few years that it was "easy" to convert a non-Union gig to a Union gig, so I put the question out on the Yahoo board asking STEP-BY-STEP what the process would be. I got a very clear answer....but...it only dealt with the voiceover aspect of things....then I went back & asked what about all the time we spend editing I was told that that basically that wasn't even in the mix....that I'd have to change a separate fee for that and that that was never considered because the voiceover talent didn't want to impinge on their studio "brothers & sisters" Sorry....That just doesn't work for me....that's like "ignore it & it'll go away"...it doesn't make sense.
Without quoting Todd's post in it's entirety, I say...what Todd Said! 
I too have had my best 1Q EVAH, all while keeping my rates reasonable to my clients & turning stuff around quickly & providing a quality product.
Yes, sure, residuals would be nice, but I'm not going to hamstring myself & cut-off all the repeat businesses that I have worked hard to cultivate just to appease the Union and prove to them that I'm a "real" VO talent because I have a Union card.
The other thing that keep coming up is this "Well, the Union will go after non-paying clients for you." - I don't know if I'm lucky or just savvy enough in running my business, but in the almost 4 years that I have been doing this full time, I have NEVER been stiffed by a client. Yes some take 30, 60 maybe 90 days to pay, but this is a business and so be it. Most pay within 30 days and I'm fine with that. Again, this is my experience, YMMV
Whatever you do DB to help the Unions realize the reality of the VO Freelance world as it stands today will only be a benefit. You Rock! 
Liz
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melissa eX
MMD
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | That's indeed why I put this in Chat |
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