VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Here is a screen shot---first wave, RE 20 at 63db, second wave Gefell M930
at 45db:

Is this about where they should be for an initial record?
I can boost the levels in the interface,(MOTU Ultralite) but the sound quality seems to become harsher and more brittle.

The main point of contention is the RE 20. After post-record amplification, background hiss becomes more audible. The Gefell is pretty quiet no matter what.

Here is another possible clue---the audio clips at -5.9db, as seen below(this is on the Gefell M930)

Frank F · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject:

In simple terms I would say ypu have problems - and I do not think the microphone(s) are the problem.

F2
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Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Actually I remember having low levels on my previous computer and with every interface/pre-amp I've ever used.

Pre-amp is Avalon 737
Interface is a MOTU Ultralite, set at Odb input.

Deirdre · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject:

You're not using the Mac sound card— you're getting into the computer via FireWire.
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Frank F · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject:

This looks like an impedance issue. Check to see whether or not you have a line level input/+10/-4 db pad somewhere in your mic chain. Then play.

Or, maybe change your cables.

F2
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Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Frank, you may be onto something....

My Apogee Duet has a -10dbvu(?) option via XLR (my current connection has been XLR line out from my pre-amp to 1/4 inch/balanced into Apogee Duet)

I tried it(the -10dbvu input) and I gotta say...it seems to have reduced the noise and boosted the input a bit.....

Frank F · Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject:

That is a good step in the right direction.

Toodles

F2
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todd ellis · Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:47 am Post subject:

i think you're moving in the right direction as well, rob. neither of those files look healthy. check the pad on your re-20 as well.
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Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Just to clarify one thing, in the screens shot where the audio is clipping, I did that on purpose, so as to illustrate the headroom(?) (I think...)

My mic cables are both Pro Links Performer 500 by Monster....

The cable from my pre-amp to the MOTU Ultralite is something that Sweetwater put together for me....XLR out of the pre then 1/4 inch into the MOTU....I'm pretty sure he told me that it is balanced.....

Frank F · Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:25 am Post subject:

"Trust, but verify." Ronald Reagan, then President of the United States

This quote symbolizes your needs and comment regarding your cables and the problem with your audio signal. Just because you spent good money on a cable does not mean it will always work well or for that matter, work at all.

Did you check the pad on the RE-20? Have you changed or replaced the cables recently? How do you KNOW your cables are in good order?

I noticed your post on gearslutz.com was the same as the post here; do you not trust members of the VO-BB or gearslutz.com? Do you need to verify the suggestions given with a third or fourth party to determine your next course of action?

I have not read the post on the other forum, but I would bet the answers presented to the problem are similar.

Check and double check your equipment, then check it again.

XLR-to-1/4" (stereo) is not a balanced cable. You would require a TRS 1/4" to be balanced.

Good luck,

Toodles

F2
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Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

When you say the pad on the RE 20 do you mean the bass roll-off switch?

And yes, I have been fraternizing with the gearslutz----this has been vexing me.....I get some great input here....and the slutz also offer some valuable input....but the suggestions have not all been the same. I wish there were a quick simple answer, but as you know, often it's trail and error, approaching it from several different directions.

Actually, your suggestion about a -10dbV line has helped the most....but what has made the biggest difference.....

...I went to the Apogee Duet website and noticed their list of "compatible" software. My software, Amadeus, is not on the list. But Garage Band is (which came with my Mac)

I now find that if I record in Garage Band using my Apogee Duet, into the -10dbV line, the levels are much better, and there isn't that barely perceptible electronic hum that I was getting before....

That is, with the Gefell M930....the RE 20 in that new configuration is better, but still with a level of background noise that I'm not sure I'll ever be comfortable with. Or maybe it's that the Gefell is so darn quiet that it has spoiled me.....
(EDIT:several hours after posting this, I tried the RE20 directly into the Duet, bypassing the Avalon 737 and recording into Garage Band--it cleaned up the sound nicely....see below)

Rob Ellis · M&M Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 2385 Location: Detroit

Okay, here is the RE 20 into the Apogee Duet into Garage Band:
This BTW is bypassing the 737 and directly into the Apogee.

the levels are much better, with lower noise level too. Sounds much better!

Here is a sound file

http://WWW.ROBELLIS.INFO/images/RE20_into_Duet_into_Garage_Band.mp3

Frank F · Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject:

Better, but still with some problems.

Yes to the bass roll-off, try playing a bit.

F2
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todd ellis · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:01 am Post subject:

yes - this is TONS better! (you have to remember how picky frank is) i do agree that you could tweak a bit more, though ... like frank says - just play with it a bit (more). ; )
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Frank F · Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:05 am Post subject:

Todd, you noticed ?!? Wink

I see a lot of spikes in the file indicating several other issues. One primary concern is "impedance" once again. Software settings may be detenting the line voltage offering a lower than desired level also. Mic placement may be yet another issue.

To echo Todd - keep "playing a bit" more to discover more of what is possible and what is not..

Toodles

F2
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