VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD!
Established November 10, 2004
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

fonts ain't free
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index -> Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:55 am    Post subject: fonts ain't free Reply with quote

With all the critiquing going on in that the other forum, I wanted to bring up something that many may not realize. Be sure you or your graphic artist are using royalty-free fonts. Seriously. Like clip-art and music, fonts can be copyrighted and many are. And they can be really expensive to license, too.

Just something to think about if you hire an unknown artist from Guru.com or craigslist. make sure they have purchased the rights to use any fonts for your work.
_________________
Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
louzucaro
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1915
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff,

The U.S. does NOT protect fonts by copyright, although in most cases, if brought to court, the court will side with the designer.

However, this only has to do with re-distribution of fonts and font mimicking when the new font is created with an automated tool.

Yes, fonts are software, which means if you're using a font you pay for, you can't give it to somebody else to use. However, the representation of the font in a created piece...a piece of artwork...is not considered distribution and as far as I know, there is no such thing, legally, as having to license a font to be used in something published, so long as the actual font files aren't re-distributed with the material.

(there may be certain font foundries whose policy it is to require fonts to be licensed per use, but I've never seen that)

For instance, a font that you pay for can be used to create print materials, but you cannot put it in a collection of fonts that you sell, you cannot give it to somebody else to use (legally), you cannot put it online for people to download so that your web page looks "correct".

In other words, unlike a photograph or a piece of music, for example, that you must license for each particular use according to the copyright holder's permissions, you are not prevented from using fonts in an original design, the license is what allows you to install and use the font, and it only prevents you from re-distributing the font files themselves.
_________________
Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com

"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
todd ellis
A Zillion


Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10512
Location: little egypt

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not that it has anything to do with ... well, anything, really ...

for your consideration: www.1001freefonts.com
_________________
"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Yoda117
M&M


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2362
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eltra Corp. vs. Ringer showed us that the fonts themselves are considered to be public domain and not covered under existing US Copyright law and are even somewhat exempted through the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.

That said, scalable fonts (that is, those that are rendered through use of computer instructions) have been interpeted to be a "computer program" (that they needed to use quotation marks just floors me), and thus are protected under existing copyright law.

see Adobe vs. Southern Software, Inc., for more information Smile
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
louzucaro
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1915
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but again, this is with regard to distribution / dissemination and not use-per-project licensing.
_________________
Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com

"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JimRon
Club 300


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Rockland Cty, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's interesting. when i worked at a direct mail marketing agency, we had to include the fonts we used in the pieces we designed when we sent everything to the printer. never even thought of them being copyrighted.

Wild, Wild Stuff! (oh wait, i think that phrase is trademarked.)
_________________
Jim Feldman
www.jimfeldman.us
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimfeldman
Facebook: www.facebook.com/JimFeldmanVoiceovers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copyright was the wrong term. True, you can't copyright a font, but you can get a design patent that protects your font design: http://www.martinezgroup.com/articles/1997aigaprotectfont.html

The point is, make sure your graphic artists are on the up and up and they've paid for everything they use. 'Cause in this world, I'd imagine you could get sued for hiring someone who used a pirated version of software or unlicensed material.

All of the above has the caveat of "I'm not a lawyer but..."
_________________
Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com


Last edited by Jeffrey Kafer on Fri May 18, 2007 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
JimRon
Club 300


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Rockland Cty, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know we pay a bloody fortune to use fonts in our video games.


maybe cause the video games are for sale (and like needle-drop fees the rights are are per use), and something like a direct marketing piece isn't being sold? i'm no lawyer either (but i play one on a commercial) but that would seem to make sense to me.

kinda makes me want to create a font, copyright it and sell it. if only i were more graphically inclined...
_________________
Jim Feldman
www.jimfeldman.us
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimfeldman
Facebook: www.facebook.com/JimFeldmanVoiceovers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
louzucaro
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1915
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't agree with the laws. I think they should be copyright-able.

Even if you get a patent as Jeff pointed out, if somebody buys the font, prints it out, scans it, then traces it in software to create a "new" font based on the original, technically that's not illegal.
_________________
Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com

"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JimRon
Club 300


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Rockland Cty, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with you on the laws, lou. if you work hard to create something, you should be able to protect that work from other people distributing it without paying some kind of royalty.

fair use is one thing, but selling something that isn't yours wouldn't qualify for fair use.

Quote:
Even if you get a patent as Jeff pointed out, if somebody buys the font, prints it out, scans it, then traces it in software to create a "new" font based on the original, technically that's not illegal.


but i'd hedge a bet the court might side with the original creator on this one. remember the vanilla ice-queen "under pressure" lawsuit?
_________________
Jim Feldman
www.jimfeldman.us
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jimfeldman
Facebook: www.facebook.com/JimFeldmanVoiceovers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

right, Jim. The point of a design patent is so that someone can't obviously copy your design.
_________________
Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
louzucaro
The Gates of Troy


Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1915
Location: Chicago area

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, it's gone both ways in court...sometimes the original designer has been victorious while others, because there's no copyright, if the knockoff was "different enough", the patent wasn't enforced.
_________________
Lou Zucaro
http://www.voicehero.com

"Well, yeah, there's my favorite leaf!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Yoda117
M&M


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2362
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

louzucaro wrote:
Sadly, it's gone both ways in court...sometimes the original designer has been victorious while others, because there's no copyright, if the knockoff was "different enough", the patent wasn't enforced.


if it can be shown that it was derived from the original then yes the rules under copyright law still apply.

It would fall under the provisions of the NET Act of 1997, which would also cover the distribution of said item.
_________________
Voiceovers by Gregory Houser
Philadelphia based Voice Actor

Blog - A man, a martini, and a lot of microphones
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
billelder
Guest





PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got really upset and worried when I saw this post's title until I realized the word had an "on" and not a "ar."

Nevermind.
Back to top
Jeffrey Kafer
Assistant Zookeeper


Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 4931
Location: Location, Location!

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billelder wrote:
I got really upset and worried when I saw this post's title until I realized the word had an "on" and not a "ar."

I learned very quickly not to do what you're talking about in a sound booth.
_________________
Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    VO-BB - 19 YEARS OLD! Forum Index -> Chat All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group