VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[pdm1999]

Hi Everyone - I'm not only new to VO but new to VO-BB. I sure appreciate all the great info I've read here on VO-BB.

I had a question about demos and would sure appreciate both advice and some constructive criticism.

Most of the stuff I've read (elsewhere primarily) says to NEVER consider putting a demo together yourself and that you MUST have a pro studio do it which costs $1500 - $5000 or more. I've also ready plenty of posts from folks that paid that much and still ended up with a bad demo. Obviously everyone has an opinion and many of these sites are studios which of course are promoting their capabilities in demo creation too.

So, I have no idea what the real story is. I'm a techie guy and thought I'd try making one myself but I have no idea whether it would be considered horrible or fair or good enough to try and get a few "starter" jobs.

I have had some radio stations listen to the demo and they thought it was just fine (for what that's worth).

If a couple of folks could take a minute to listen and comment I'd sure appreciate it.

I will tell you my recording studio is currently bare bones and I'm still adding to it. I don't have a sound booth yet and I expect you might think it's too noisy or has too much room noise among other things. Just let me know how you think I might be able to improve on it.

Thanks in advance!

Demo-Commercials: http://www.philmcadams.com/audio_player_files/music/DemoCommercials.mp3

Have a great day!

Phil McAdams

[Whit]

I will leave the critique to the way more experienced than me pros here, but I can tell you that I work in casting at a recording studio, and I would send that demo out for a job. The quality is not too shabby.
BUT - It sounds kinda the same all the way through, so I might not get the chance to send it out much. It sounds a little... quirky?
Maybe try to more completely change your energy and find some more distinctly different reads. I might also lose the last piece... the copy is more trailer read, but your read sounds straight up commercial and doesn't seem to fit.

I hope that's a little bit helpful. Best of luck to you.

[pdm1999]

Hi Whit - thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

I've listened to hundreds of people's demos posted around on the web. I can only assume that demos from the more popular VO artists are the demos I should pay attention to when creating mine. Some sound basically the same on every segment while others are doing stuff that's just off the wall with accents, characters, etc. So, it's kind of hard for me to know quite what should be in a "good" demo.

But as I record more samples in my practice, I'll try to make sure I mix things up as much as I can and switch those into the demo. This was just a first crack at putting something together so I'm at least pleased you didn't say it was pitiful Plus I had a blast doing it!

I'm not opposed to investing financially to have a professional demo made for me but since I'm just starting out I thought perhaps that money might be better spent elsewhere like coaching, better equipment/software, etc.

Thanks again for the quick response! Have a great weekend!

Phil

[Whit]

Definitely not pitiful.

You have a great weekend too!

[Mike Sommer]

If I were you I would not send this out. Every read sounds the same, and it sounds like you are reading to me, not talking to me- and that is the trick. It sound unpolished and unprofessional. The moment an agent or noteworthy producer hears that James Bond theme- In the trash it goes.

I say this to everyone that starts out thinking that they can read a few commercials and expect work. It's not going to happen- Oh maybe you'll get some low ball fifty dollar jobs but nothing to make a living on.

Your first course of action is to get Voce Over training. Seek out the best you can get and don't be in a hurry to put out a demo. Once you've been in a good class with an instructor that knows his business- only then will you understand how much you need to learn. Even after all that there is still the chance, you may not have the acting chops to be competitive.

But one never knows until they try.

Go get 'em.


Yeah, it does cost $1500 or more. $2500 is more accurate these days. Because it's best to use more then one studio and one engineer to put together your spots so they all don't sound like they came out of the same studio. And the folks that have paid the big bucks to get a crappy demo, are the ones that didn't have a good producer, and or the copy was not right for the talent. It can take six months to collect all the scripts that fit or sound right for the talent.

[Philip Banks]

Nothing in there that can't be fixed. The audio demonstrates you have the potential so it's now up to you to decide how much you want to invest in terms of both money and time in order to discover whether or not you can launch yourself into a career as a Voice Overist. You'll need around $3,000 and it would be best if you can afford to lose it or at the very least wait for a while before you get it back.

[Frank F]

You are on the right track, and as Phillip Banks writes: "Nothing in there that can't be fixed..."

As you so politely put it, Phil: ...demos from the more popular VO artists are the demos I should pay attention to when creating mine.

One of the first aspects of creating a demo should be determining the target audience. Many of the demos you mentioned were designed for specific genre's of the VO/VA industry (i.e., character demos for animation, commercial for commercial demos, imaging reads for radio and television stations, and long form reads for narration or audio-book demos are examples). What is YOUR target audience for the demo Phil?

Listen closely to demos of the pro's which may sound similar throughout and you will soon hear differences in style, inflection, pacing, feel, and believability.

Each part of a demo or each project you record has a specific character which needs to be brought into the ears of the listener. When you can make someone feel the emotion of your words, you are ready to record a demo.

Assuming you already have a computer, sound card, microphone, and editing software from your post; the costs to make things better might be minimal. Acoustics, equipment, talent, and skill are all parts of the personal home studio. You alone will have to decide what you consider a "professional studio" or not.

Paying someone to create a demo when you are not ready is like throwing away money. If you want to do that (throw away your money) - throw it my way as I will be glad to catch what you throw. What you should be looking for at this stage of your VA foray is finding a mentor who will help you progress with your skills and not someone who will charge you for making a demo - yet.

You have not supplied us with enough information about the equipment you already own, a list might be helpful in determining your needs and wants.

As an addendum: I looked at your web site to find out more about you. The home page has a lot of black space, and at first I did not know I had to scroll down to see more information. The details are what make or break a site, the huge amount of black space might be a detail which was overlooked. Make your complete page viewable on the normal minimum size of monitor (640 x 480 pixels) for ease of viewing.

Good luck.

Toodles

F2
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[pdm1999]

Hi guys! Thanks so very much for all the feedback.

I'm sure you know for us newbies in VO, there's so many opinions and recommendations out there that it's not only overwhelming but you don't know who to trust. That's why I wanted to first get your opinions since you guys are pros and are more impartial than randomly picking some voice coaching web site with testimonials that were probably just Voice123 projects for $50 by someone that's never heard of that coach.

Coaching certainly seems to be the next step. Unfortunately, I'm not located in a major city so I would need to maybe do a 2-3 day "boot camp" and then do some remote coaching. There seem to be lots of folks claiming to be voice coaches. If you have any recommendations on how to find one that's good I'd certainly appreciate it.

As far as my equipment list goes, it's bare bones. I just have a Samson CO3U condenser mic (USB) with a stand, pop filter, and spider. I'm using Audacity but also have Sonar LE. Had some folks recommend Adobe Audition and of course the big gun seems to be Pro Tools. Everyone seems to have their favorite but Audacity seems to be what most people recommend for starting out and certainly seems okay at this point. I do not have a phone patch but can certainly pick that up if necessary (just using Skype right now). No ISDN either - just high speed internet.

I have not yet created a sound booth and am recording in my office which is fairly large (15 x 20). I'm sure I'll need to do something about that to dampen the room noise if I don't make (or buy) a booth. The only real editing I did on the demo clips was to pull out breaths and normalize it. There may have been a little noise editing on some of the pieces as well but not much. I did not do any compression or levelling.

Regarding the web site, you're dead on. I just threw something up temporarily not really intending to promote it at this point - that's why I didn't mention it. That's on my list to do shortly but decided to learn DreamWeaver CS4 first before attacking the web site for real. I'm in the process of that now but thanks for looking at the web site!

I've been an engineer (aerospace and mechanical) for 30 years and have been writing software for the last 20 of those years. VO is a great change yet still has some "tech" to it which I like. I love to learn something new and having a blast so far.

Thanks again for taking time to listen and comment and the encouragement. I've got lots ot learn - that's for sure. Glad there's "nothing that can't be fixed"

Have a great day!

Phil McAdams

[Mike Sommer]

Phil,

If you are serious about VO there are a few good coaches that offer instruction via phone and internet: Marc Cashman
http://www.cashmancommercials.com/
and Nancy Wolfson
http://www.braintracksaudio.com/

~~
Frank, when one ask for critiques one should be willing to hear the unvarnished truth. It's not about being polite, it's speaking directly to the problem. When someone asks me what I think about something I ask them, "Do you want to fell good, or the truth?"

When when I heard Mr McAddams demo, I understood immediately that he had a preconceived idea of what VO was or should be. Certainly there's nothing that can't be fixed with time and money --both in audio quality and skills sets. But in these tough economical times one should be informed directly about what needs to be done and what the pit falls are. Only then will one know if it's time to fish or cut bait. There is no time for soft shoe folks.


I can speak directly to the point that a few of the bigger names in this industry that used to post their views and opinions here on these boards, no longer do because of the criticisms of the criticisms. This is not a business for the meek and mild, and if one can not handle criticism, direction, or rejection then it time to get out now.

[Jeffrey Kafer]

Mike, chill. Frank made no comment about your critique, so calling him out like that was inappropriate.
_________________
Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com

[Frank F]

Mike, I gave the truth, no soft shoe.

I may not have taken the direct route such as you have intimated. Instead of a sledge hammer I used tact and style with my critique.

I am not discouraging or encouraging Phil. I have addressed each and every part of Mr. McAddams posts. I did not attack him, rather I explained parts of our business.

Mike, there is no need to be caustic in your approach toward me and my thoughts.

I am at a point in my VA career where I can stand back and offer a helping hand instead of a smack in the face. Where are you?

Mike, You have an opinion and I have an opinion, that is what the VO-BB is here to address. Presenting your thoughts without attacking another person is called professionalism and style. I read your posts and found you to be direct, which is your option; mine is different, and I am pleased we agree in some aspects.

Further I do not know of any (as you call them) "Pro's" who do not offer their opinions in the VO-BB Critique section anymore because of fear of retribution. Although your latest post toward me, Mike, might be the impetus and example of why some folks do not wish to offer their thoughts on a public forum.

Please present your side of things as you see them. I will continue to present my thoughts with my style.

Good luck to you Mr. McAddams and to you Mr. Sommer. Each of you have to listen to the beat of your own drum.

Thank you Mr. Kafer, as always you have moderated this forum with a sense of fairness.

Toodles

F2
_________________
Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com

[pdm1999]

Thanks for the suggestion on coaches. I'll contact them and see what they have to offer.

If anyone else has coach suggestions I'd appreciate them too. I've looked online at some coaching sites like suchavoice.com, greatvoice.com, etc. but it's hard to know whether to trust all their hype or not. That's why I asked for your recommendations in the first place.

Any and all suggestions are certainly welcome. Also feel free to e-mail me directly if you don't want to take up space here on VO-BB. My e-mail is phil@philmcadams.com

Thanks again everybody. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the near future!

Phil

[Deirdre]

[Philip Banks]

Things can go from critique to critique of the critique to critique of the critiqued critique. The end of the line is someone taking umbridge because we have no idea how important they think they are and the poor old original poster wondering what on earth they started when all they really wanted was approval. The latter comment is oh so often sad but true.

What do we do?

If asking for a critique. Learn to tell the difference between an opinion and an opinion upon which we should place value.

When giving a critique. Say what you believe to be true and if people disagree bear in mind the person who dares to disagree isn't wrong, they're just not you.

[Bailey]

To be critiqued by some of the finest in the VO business... at all levels... has always been a favorite pastime at the VO-BB. I have always admired those who would venture in... "show their hand"... and accept the good compliments with the constructive compliments.

But there are times when I read a critique from someone who has never shown their own hand... or even a website link where I can listen to their demos. I like to do this at times just to satisfy my own curiosity as to the VO quality of the one giving the critique. Or as some would say... "What's in your wallet?"

Frank always uses tact in his critiques... he tells it like it is, explains why, and is full of great suggestions. He doesn't want to scare people off or diminish their dream. Tact works.

That's all I gotta say about that.
_________________
"Bailey"
a.k.a. Jim Sutton
Retired... Every day is Saturday, except Sunday.
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AOVA Graduate 02/2004 ;
"Be a Voice, not an Echo."