VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

tokyofan · Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: vocal booth update

This is a follow up to an earlier thread about re-treating my booth:
http://www.vo-bb.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7034&highlight=

This past spring I extended it outwards by opening the doors and building on a wall and ceiling, which gives me another foot or so of breathing room. I think it's marginally better but not ideal. It's very foamed up to deaden the space. Here's a diagram and new pics:

Frank at GIK suggested 6 of their 244 bass trap panels but I just don't think I can squeeze all those in and still have room to sit comfortably with the mic and stand. I asked about a combination of the 244s and 242s...and he said that would be an improvement but still not ideal.

Any thoughts? Thanks!
If you want to hear samples please check out my recent posts about the "new Great River".
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Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

This will sound counter-intuitive, but here goes...

My recording space is a converted 6x5 closet area, I've got it nice and dead in there, but I didn't like the closed sound. It's much better speaking out towards the open door. However, even though the space outside the closet is quite large, returning sound can really affect what's happening in the closet.

I bought two triangular bass traps and three panels from GIK (they're ten minutes from me, and Frank was great to work with). They're lightweight and easy to move around, so I tested them in many positions.

What worked best was surprising: one bass trap in the Auralex treated closet, and one panel on the ceiling...and then the other basstrap and two panels outside the closet to tame the returning reflections. The noisefloor was also lowest with this arrangement by 3db: so if you're worried about city noise, the panels outside of your booth might help more than having panels actually inside your booth. Might...it's all just intended as food for thought. Good luck.
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captain54 · Lucky 700 Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 744 Location: chicago

the misconception is that a completely dead booth acoustically (from the inside) is going to "soundproof" the space from extraneous noise...nothing could be further from the truth, at least in my experience.

I have experimented with soundproofing every which way, and I have found the least desirable method was to record in a tight space that was completely dead. it gave my voice a very otherwordly weird quality, not to mention the emotional and psychological factor of recording in a "cocoon"

Beside the obvious issue of eliminating outside noise (ventilation, sirens, kids playing outside, lawnmowers, people walking on the upper floors of the studio, telephones ringing, etc.) the only other real trick is to make your space reflection-free by diffusion. What you don't want is your voice returning back to the mic by bouncing off of walls, ceilings, etc, after you have already spoken directly into the mic.

I record in a 10x14 room and have my copy stand and mic set up smack dab in the middle of the room, facing one of the long sides of the room. That way, my voice only has to travel 5ft to hit the nearest wall, and I have that wall treated with a sound insulation blanket. Above my head, is hung a 4'x4' Auralex panel. I have a futon with a thick cushion against one wall, bookshelves on another wall, checkerboard auralex arrangement on any open spaces, and bass traps in every corner and the floor carpeted.

My recordings sound open and natural... the only issues I have are with ventilation and heat/air cond., but that's from the outside. Its much easier to be free and creative when you are in a normal room, as opposed to being cooped up in a vacuum chamber, at least in my experience.

tokyofan · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:51 am Post subject: re:

Got some feedback from James at Real Traps as well:

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

Consider losing the booth. What are the dimensions of you room in which the current booth resides, and what is the noise floor in the room & what are the noise issues you are dealing with?

You might be better in the greater room treated with maybe a less sensitive (dynamic?) mic.
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tokyofan · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: re:

I'm quite attached to the booth and have been using it for more than a couple years now without too much complaint...and would like to keep using it if it's not a lost cause. I'm happy to sink more money into it if the acoustics can be improved. I recently posted some voice samples on a different thread that (I think) are passable. And with some additional treatment maybe it could really shine.

The larger room is 12.5 feet by 10.5 feet with a ceiling about 7.5 ft. I've got a Powermac G5 that gets quite noisy in the hot summer. There are two wide windows with intermittent street noise. Also get occasional running water noise from neighbors.
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Frank F · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject:

Understanding you are unable to find "rockwool" or fiberglass insulation easily, there are other things you can do with what you have - the MacGuyver Syndrome.

Using the larger area would really be beneficial to your sound as long as you do not have extraneous noise which would conflict with the audio being recorded.

A few choices with the foam and the fusuma would create a really nice small recording/editing area. This would require a bit of work on your part, but would be inexpensive. Audio foam is designed specifically to "absorb" the upper frequencies, not low frequencies. In a very small confined space - the low end needs to be addressed as the first order of business.

One thing before I stop writing, is to make sure you foam is placed 1" (2.5 cm) to 2" (5.1 cm) away from the wall. Thus leaving an air gap between the wall and the foam.

You do not need to cover the entire room with foam either, just make sure you have the reflection points covered.

Getting out of the closet would open up your sound.

Good luck.

Toodles

F2
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tokyofan · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: re:

Well, it can't hurt to add some bass traps to my booth. I think the plan now is to order a smattering of bass traps from either GIK or RealTraps (whichever offers the better deal). I'll place them at the front, rear, and ceiling. I don't think the booth sounds half-bad now, so I hope the traps will improve things. But if I decide it's a lost cause then I could always purchase one of those PVBs from RealTraps and record in the larger room and use the bass traps in conjunction. Unfortunately, the int'l shipping is a real killer, nearly doubling the price of everything! Plus they add an import tax! So, we're talking between $600 - $900 for the traps with shipping.
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Gp · Guest

GIK has a european store so they might be able to save you some shipping.

Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

900 for traps thanks to shipping? I'd just put bookshelves everywhere (fill 'em up with cheap used books) and let that tame the room.
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tokyofan · Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: re:

I actually have a large collection of books, but am willing to invest in commercial traps.

Both options are expensive (esp. with shipping to Tokyo) but given the choice what do you think would be better for my booth:

GIK:
Two 244's (bass traps) and three 242's (2" panels): $294.95 for the panels, plus $500 for shipping to your door.
Total: $794.95

RealTraps:
2 - MiniTraps @ 199.99
2 - MiniTrap 2x2s @ 139.99 (for ceiling)
Shipping: $230.26
Total: $910.22

The nice thing about the MiniTraps is that they're a little thinner than the 244's...3.5" vs 5.5". Space vs performance.
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Gp · Guest

either company is great to work with. Frank is a great and knowledgeable person and so is Ethan. I would think where space is such a concern for you that every little bit would help. Each one uses a little different design in their traps but both are equally effective.
Let us know how things turn out.
PEACE!

tokyofan · Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:57 am Post subject: re:

I received four bass traps from Real Traps and managed to squeeze them into my booth. I put a 2'x 4' trap on the floor at the front and rear of the booth and a 2'x 2' trap resting on top of both, arced inwards at about 45 degrees to the ceiling. Here are some sound files for comparison and a new pic of the booth. Your thoughts are appreciated!

TLM103 no traps
http://www.vo-bb.com/demos/Grace_TLM103_dry.mp3

U87 no traps
http://www.vo-bb.com/demos/Grace_dry.wav

TLM103 w/traps
http://www.vo-bb.com/demos/traps_Grace_TLM103.mp3

U87 w/traps
http://www.vo-bb.com/demos/traps_Grace_U87.mp3

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Lance Blair · M&M Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 2281 Location: Atlanta

You're going to hate me, but I think it sounds better without the traps. The traps seem to just make your booth sound smaller and all phasey.
Traps work wonders from a distance and separated slightly from wall space. Up close they're not as effective.

I still like the 103 more than the U87 though.
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steveanthony · Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:37 am Post subject:

I really don't hear a major difference with or without the traps, though I tend to like the sound of the U87 with traps. One more configuration to try is, if possible, taking a few pieces of Auralex out of the equation. If I recall, foam tends to suck up the highs and mids. It might 'lively' up the joint.

Steve