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georgethetech

What do you guys and gals think of this stuff?

It seems in theory it would be highly effective, but is it too good to be true?
While it boasts a high R rating, does that translate to very low sound transfer?
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Deirdre · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject:

That's what I've heard!
There's I guy I know with a studio in his house in a Portland neighborhood (very close neighbors— think San Francisco), and he had triple-glazed windows in the recording side.

I'd imagine any wicked fab insulation would be great.
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samowry · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject:

Maine or Oregon?

Mike Sommer · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject:

George

If we look at the fact that sound can not travel in a vacuum, I would say yes.

Air is like a spring. If you take a syringe (needle removed of course) fill it with air and place your finger over the end and try pushing the plunger. You'll feel the resistance of the air.

Now think of a sheet of glass as a diaphragm. If air is trapped between two sheets of glass, and one of those sheets of glass resonates from a sound source, the movement of the glass and air will resonate the second sheet of glass. This is why glass in partitions need to be of different thicknesses; each sheet will resonate at different frequencies based on it thickness. Also this is why windows with Low-E glass can provide some sound isolation but not true isolation and because of it's mechanical bond.

Therefore, the problem I see with the vacuum glass is the frame, and the mechanical transmission of sound. So one would still require two separate pains of this product to get sound isolation.

Depending on the price, two sheets of laminated glass may be more cost effective.
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Ed Gambill · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject:

George
If you haven’t read it, get this book “Sound Studio Construction ON A BUDGET”. Chapter 15 on Observation Windows

F. Alton Everest
TAB Books, ISBN0-07-021382-8
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Frank F · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject:

I believe the real question should not be about keeping sound outside of the recording environment from infiltrating the the room, but rather would the reflections from the flat surfaces of the glass become problematic?

If, on the other hand, the reflective surfaces were positioned at non-right-angles and the ceiling and floor treated with sound absorbtion material AND any other surface in the studio were also sound absorbant or at faceted angeles (think stealth planes) and the entire room were isolated as a "floating room" - - then a nice sound would result.

Not that you are sugesting one but a completly glassed-in studio with a view would be a unique facility.

Clearsorber www.silentsource.com/diffusors-rpg-clearsorber.htmlis an option which would fit the "open-studio" with glass walls.

From www.RPGinc.com comes a Clearsorber Foil. This "foil" would allow a clear view of the sky - just think of the possibilities...

Frank F
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georgethetech · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:02 am Post subject:

Dayo · Cinquecento Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 544 Location: UK

Whenever I've built a widow into a booth - 3 times in different booth incarnations - the problem hads always been with early reflections off the glass. Now I go without the window.

Bruce · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:50 am Post subject:

Frank, thanks for the links to the Clearsorber "glass" panels and foil. Way cool, and way expensive I'm guessing.

B
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Deirdre · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:07 am Post subject:

Mandy Nelson · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:33 am Post subject:

Mike Sommer · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:23 am Post subject:

There are so many problems in a small booth to start with, adding glass will just compounds the mess with bright early refections, flutter and comb filtering effects.
Installing the glass on an angle will help mitigate these problems, along with absorption on the opposite wall.

When one realizes that the glass only needs to meet the STR levels of the wall it's going into, it's just a matter of crunching the numbers to find the proper thicknesses.

The RPG material is just fantastic, affordability is -I'm sure- could be it's only limitation.

Now with if we can only build a studio with light emitting concert and the Clearsorber, we might have something.
http://optics.org/cws/article/research/19184

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Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

Frank F · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:36 am Post subject:

F.Y.I.: The "Clearsorber" panels are not that expensive when compared to the insulated glass.

There are alternatives (think MacGuyver) which can also be a remedy for see-through desires for room acoustics.

Just placing "glass" at an angle does not resolve the reflection problem. Flat glass on the outside - a three inch gap at the bottom betwen the indisde and outside sheet and a six inch gap at the top of the inside "glass" helps, The see-through peice should notbe in front of the talent, whether a VO artist of vocalist/musician; rather it shuld be to the left or right of the talent and instrument.

Thanks for thnking my thoughts Diane.

Frank F
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Living Culture · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:50 am Post subject:

Frank F · Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:51 am Post subject:

Good point L.C., In most cases when dealing with studio design I am not usally troubled with "insulation" as a problem point.

The major concern with small home VO studios is reflection points, bass rumble, how quiet, and how hollow, or how "live" the small room sounds INSIDE.

Using the "Clearsorber" panel when used as described or as a quazi-Helmoltz-QRD with flat flas on the 90 degree side becomes a good choice for see-through requirements.

Studio needs and requirements vary with the size, location, and archiecture of the environment. But, that being said, using parts which are easily available can make for a good sound for a low price when planning and forethought is applied.

Frank F
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