VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

Hart · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:32 pm Post subject: My 416/Booth sound samples

As promised here's some dry audio of my setup:

Hart Booth Samples

I should have taken a picture. Mic is just above head level 18-22 inches away I guess and pointed towards my throat or upper chest. My preamp is cranked up +42, no idea where it's meters are reading since I can't see it right now. Need to work that one out.

These are sight reads from mags I had laying around so don't take too much away from them please.

And for those of you that geek out on this stuff like I do I left 5 seconds of room noise on the tail end.

Now: Thoughts, comments, suggestions all would be most welcome.
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

Philip Banks · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject:

Comparison. Gain at 42 mic same distance away point straight down so angle about 90 degrees to the horizontal. Nothing added or taken away.

www.thecorporatevoice.com/gain42.wav

Hart · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject:

Interesting. Thank you very much Philip. I took a quick go at it more like that but we have guests and my wife gets peeved if I disappear for too long I'll have to play more later.

http://www.hartvoiceovers.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Booth2.wav
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

SkinnyJohnny · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject:

Hey Brian,
I'm hearing the room acoustics. I would try the same position but about 12 inches away and see how that sounds.
I know Bob Souer uses the 416, so maybe he will chime in.
Good luck!
John
_________________
John Weeks Voice Overs
www.johnweeksvoiceovers.com

Hart · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject:

Thanks very much John, I will.
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

SkinnyJohnny · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject:

You're welcome. Hope things are going well for you down in my old stompin' grounds!
_________________
John Weeks Voice Overs
www.johnweeksvoiceovers.com

Mike Sommer · Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject:

Yep, lots of room resonance and echo. Eliminate the effect of the room and you'll be closer to where you want to be. Otherwise you'll need to work close to the mic to eliminate the room -one of the many reasons some folks use the 416.
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

Hart · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:54 am Post subject:

Thanks very much for your thoughts guys.

I thought I had it sounding better than that. It seems I have two problems: one in the mixing area (since I didn't think it sounded that bad obviously my listening area is off) and one in the booth.

I'm going to type my thoughts out as I think them - maybe somebody can correct me if I screw up something and maybe they might be useful to somebody else in the future. And it gives you an idea into how my warped mind works, lol. I don't know that I'll do all or any of this I'm just brainstorming at this point.

Feel free to skip the rest of this post as it's mostly geeky blather.

Since I'm on a bit of a budget so far I've just re purposed the foam and bass traps I used in NC. But both spaces here are larger than there. Hmm. So I need to come up with some more absorptive surfaces somehow.

I'll stick to the booth thoughts for now:

My new booth has 5 sides. Not like a baseball diamond more like this

(yay for ASCI ART!)

The pointed end is sharper than that though - just under a 90 degree angle.

Currently I'd estimate 70% of the wall surfaces have Auralex on them. I also have 2 four foot by 2 foot bass traps - in opposing corners. But my booth is... 92 3/4 inches tall something like that. And there is no absorption whatsoever on the ceiling. And the floor is concrete with pad/carpet over it.

For starters I think I need to extend those traps from floor to ceiling (and maybe add to other corners) and do something to attenuate the issues of the parallel surfaces of the floor and ceiling. I wonder if a cloud would help? Seems like they work well only when the room is big enough to let the sound waves fully develop - need to check on that. I could add another layer of sheetrock to the ceiling and shim it out of parallel but I'm pretty sure I'd be making a triple leaf if I do that. Need to check on that one too.

If I can come up with enough material I've got another idea using smaller panels for the long ceiling to wall juncture I want to try.

The isolation is pretty good if I'm not mistaken - my noise floor seems acceptable for now, but it's not completely where I want it yet. I still have a standard residential door on the booth. I played with shoving some blankets around the edges and that helped some so I'm investigating options on that one. There's a neat design for a door system on the Sayers site I've been thinking of trying since I really can't afford to spend $1200+ on a door right now. I like it because it also uses magnetic stripping and a pneumatic door closer to help achieve a good tight seal. Got to figure out how to incorparate a threshold for it though. Seems like what's his face with the owl avatar- knightfly maybe? addresed that too.

On isolation I had seriously debated doing a floating floor - man those are a lot of work to get right. After playing some I'm not sure it's going to be necessary, or at the very least it need to be put on the back burner behind all these other issues.

I'd love to be able to buy some panels from GK or Ethan Winer but I just can't afford it right now so home built it is.

Other thoughts: For those samples I had the mic close to the flat end of the booth. I need to play with placement some. Maybe it would sound better to move it more to the center of the booth or perhaps if I turn that pointed corner into one big trap face that way instead.

I was hoping to keep a little liveliness in the booth but maybe I need to kill it all for now and work from a "dead" sound backwards instead.

Lots for me to think about. Off to johnlsayers.com and recording.org

EDIT: PS - another thought instead of thinking "bass trap" in the pointed corner perhaps something like a broadband sort of "inside out" wall stretching across it would be good. Maybe hinge it so I could get back there when needed.
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

SkinnyJohnny · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:18 am Post subject:

I'd say build those panels and cover as much of an area as you can.
This looks like a job for Mike!
_________________
John Weeks Voice Overs
www.johnweeksvoiceovers.com

Hart · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:20 am Post subject:

Yeah, that's my cheapest option so it's the first one anyway. I know just enough about acoustic design to be dangerous so it was good to spend some time on the geek sites again. I've got some 1 x 4 and 1x3's in the garage I can re-purpose. Man I wish I had a cheap local source for some rockwool or 703 but I don't. I'll just have to work around that for now.

Ahh screw it for today. It's pretty outside and my wife wants to go play tennis. I think I'll build some new panels tomorrow and see how much difference it makes.
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

Mike Sommer · Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject:

What are the rooms dimensions? Please include location of doors and windows. For the pointed end, include the length of each wall.

What is the wall construction- plaster or drywall on wood stud ?

Is this room in a basement or on the ground floor

Pictures please; they speak a 1000 words.

How thick is the Auralex, and what are you using for the bass traps?
_________________
The Blog:
http://voiceoveraudio.blogspot.com/

Acoustics are counter-intuitive. If one thing is certain about acoustics, it is that if anything seems obvious it is probably wrong.

Hart · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:06 am Post subject:

AH! The magic questions.

The house is on a concrete slab - one story so the booth sits on the slab.

The booth is a closet I've converted - no exterior walls. Sheetrock on wood stud frames. The interior side of the booth walls and ceiling are two layers of 5/8" sheetrock with approximately 2 tubes of green glue per 4'x8' area as recommended by the manufacturer. The "exterior" side of the walls are whatever the original builder used, probably 1/2". I can't really add to that as it will screw up the hallway and master bedroom walls and I do want to be able to sell the house one day. I added unfaced insulation (yes the pink stuff) in between to fill the cavities and eliminate any "drum" effect.

All sheetrock on the first layer is caulked with GE Silicone II to the studs, floor and every seam. On the top layer of sheetrock most seams are silicone but some are Green Glue since I had a little left over. The floor to wall and wall to ceiling joints are caulked with Green Glue on the top layer. On top of that I've got tape plus 3 skim coats of joint compound on the seams as I would do for standard construction.

There are two electrical outlets and two wall panels for TRS/XLR jacks. The audio panels use conduit inside the walls. One has 3 90 degree turns, the other has 4. Each end of the conduit is stuffed with scrap foam to help seal it and I've used the silicone caulk to seal up anything I could around all that. Other than the door I think the isolation is pretty well taken care of for my needs but I'm always open to suggestions that don't involve putting 703 in the walls.

Booth Dimensions: My sketchup skills suck so here's something I drew up in paint. All lengths are accurate - just checked them. No windows and only one door.

All of my Auralex is the 2" studio foam I've got a ton of it, ranging from full 2' x 4' sheets down to little scraps, I bought off of some guy that used his garage for band practice.

Panels: I made these up for my studio in NC. I have 4 that are 2' by 4' each. Currently 2 are placed on the floor in the booth. One in the pointed corner and one in the 67"/44 1/2" corner. They take up too much room to put all 4 in there and are too tall to stack. They are made with 1" by 6" wood frames and covered with breathable fabric. Currently I have 2 layers of the studiofoam placed in each. The plan was to replace that with rockwool or 703 but I never got around to it. The design allows them to be hung on the wall but keep the foam spaced 2 inches off of it. I'm totally cool with rebuilding/replacing these. I keep calling them bass traps but I don't think that's technically accurate. They seem to do a good job with broadband absorption though.

I'll take some pictures and post them later today.

Mike, I appreciate any and all advice you are able to offer. For that matter, that goes for anybody else that knows about this stuff and wants to chime in.

EDIT: Those corners aren't 45. I hadn't had my coffee yet. I'm working with my brother who knows sketcup right now and I'll post the revised drawing later.
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

SkinnyJohnny · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:15 am Post subject:

I think the lack of rockwool or 703 is a lot of the problem.
You might have covered this, but Mike will probably want to know exactly where your mic is placed and in what direction it faces.
Mike will sort it all out for you.
Good luck!
_________________
John Weeks Voice Overs
www.johnweeksvoiceovers.com

Hart · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:26 am Post subject:

Thanks John. For the samples I posted the mic is... dammit my 3 year old walked off with the tape measure.

Ok, found it. The mic is currently placed about 2 feet away from the flat end of the the booth (44 1/2 " wall), centered side to side, and I was facing that 44 1/2" wall. The shockmount is 73" high off the floor with the mic pointed down from there.

My original plan was to make one end of the booth livelier than the other so I could move the mic around to adjust the sound but I think maybe the space is too small for that and I'm not sure how useful that would be to me anyway.

I'm going to take J.D. to daycare and come back to take pictures and read up some more. It seems much more important that marketing or website design right now.
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions

Hart · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: Photos

Okay, I've uploaded some pictures. You can see them all here: http://flickr.com/gp/radiobiz/3289f1 There are also bigger sizes of each you can get to there.

I've put the three I think are most relevant below.

The foam is just placed willie nillie and held up with T pins and I removed some to show the room better. If it would help to take it all out and get some pics let me know.

this is from the doorway looking in. You see the 67" wall in the back.

Here I'm on the floor in the pointed corner facing the flat end:

And here I'm in the flat end facing the corner:

That big bare spot on the wall had a panel across it with some additional foam but I took it out for the pictures.
_________________
Hart Voice Overs Blog
Brian Hart Productions