VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Bob Bergen]

Hi gang!

I'm conducting a lil poll here. Here's my question:

If the majority of the VO work online were union, if the only thing that would change online were the union status of auditions and jobs, if the unions were able to work with the online buyers so they could still afford many of the low budget gigs but still make them union gigs, would you the actor be willing to go union?

I know many non union jobs offered online pay well over scale. Many offer as low as $75 for a TV commercial, and actors still try to low ball each other just to get a gig. I'm actually not referring to those kinds of gigs. Those gigs hurt everyone, union or non. But I've found that a good number of online jobs, based on what they pay out could qualify for union status. I also know that it's not uncommon or even difficult to turn many non broadcast non union jobs into union jobs.

What would you gain by being union? Every time you work, you'd be able to:
1) Pay into a pension
2) Earn to qualify for health benefits
3) Receive residuals on qualifying gigs
4) Have a voice in how your union is run and governed
5) Be able to be considered by voice-over agents who only represent union actors

Much needs to be discussed and calculated. And nothing is going to change over night. But change is possible. It just has to start somewhere.

[Deirdre]

Well, I'm glad to see you starting here.

I'd go union for every gig if I could.

Unfortunately, the union demands that I enter into a false employer-employee relationship in order for a gig to be covered by the union's contract. This entails the necessity of hiring a paymaster to do the invoicing, since someone in the pay chain needs to be signatory to the union contract, and the actors aren't allowed to be that signatory because our unions don't trust us. So, the actor incurs excess fees for the privilege of doing a union job, but that's not all— because there is now an "employer", a payroll tax is levied off the top of the monies agreed to for the job.

Doing a job from my home studio does not make me an employee, and the tax burden for this racket is what makes the work go south. Yes, there are byzantine methods of creating shell corporations to supposedly lessen that loss of money, etc, but the issue is this:
Most of the time, I am NOT an employee when I am doing a VO job in my studio for a remote client.
I am a contractor.

When the union can figure out how to institute a work-for-hire contract, and allow me to keep that 30+% of the pay for a job which is lost to the absurd payroll tax and the need to hire someone else to do my invoicing, I'll make all my jobs union.
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[Bob Bergen]

DB-a perspective/concern I've never heard before. Thanks for your input!!!!

[bobsouer]

Bob,

A wonderful question. I work under union contracts every change I get. I am financial core. I made that decision because I was unwilling to work "under the table" to support my family. Between the 2 (financial core and working under the table) I think the latter does more harm to the unions than the former. In a perfect world, I would be fully union all the time. We don't live in a perfect world. I wish you well and I look forward to reading other responses to your poll.
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[todd ellis]

bob - thanks for asking ...

to me, the question isn't - do i want to work a union job or a non-union job? - the question is at what point do the union advantages outweigh the union disadvantages? right now there are some significant barriers-to-entry for me to join. deeb's example of the "employer-employee" relationship being one. i am almost ALWAYS considered a contractor and the monetary hit i would take isn't worth it to me given the majority of the type of work i am doing right now (non-broadcast long-form).

that said - to answer your question exactly - "If the majority of the VO work online were union" - i guess i wouldn't have much of a choice, huh?
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[Bruce]

If the unions could find ways to make themselves easy to work with, eager to help and not to threaten, and if they could develop ways that would make it easy for non-signatory entities to hire union talent without big paperwork and maybe with a one-fee-covers-everything approach*, I'd join back up in a minute.

I want good, cheaper health insurance so much, and a real pension would be nice. But I'm not holding my breath. In my past experiences with AFTRA the word "helpful" was nowhere to be found in their lexicon.

B

---
*you know union guys, math can work backwards, too...take a $500 fee and divide it by X and you get the health and pension contribution you can deduct, and divide it by Y and you get the agent's commission, and divide by Z and Q and such and you get tax deductions, and then there's D which will give you your union dues on a pay as we go basis! Yeah, the talent ends up with $250 or some such, but at least the client only sees and can easily budget for one $500 fee.

Oooh oooh, and they have these nifty things called computers now, and they can figure out when a 13-week cycle deadline is coming up and they can notify a client that they need to renew OR respond with a statement swearing they'll never use the read again unless they pay for it. But that's 21st Century technology and you're not there yet. We can wait.

I know the union can't/won't be a Paymaster, but they could certainly support a couple of outfits that want to do it the RIGHT way, for ALL concerned, EVERY time.

God, I'm such a dreamer.
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I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

[Deirdre]

It might be time to revisit this thread:

Dancing Naked In A Minefield
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[asnively]

DB and Bruce expressed my opinions better than I could. But I want to add my +1.

When I turn a non-union gig into a union one, it's a pain. The client isn't getting an invoice from me anymore, they're getting it from the paymaster, which they find confusing, can turn them off, and more.

I have to either charge the client more or eat the paymaster's not-insignificant fee because the union won't let me be self-employed and file the paperwork myself. Big irritation, completely unnecessary, and definitely not 21st century thinking.

And ditto to all the math-related stuff Bruce expounded on so well.
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[Mandy Nelson]

I would love if all of these videos I've been voicing lately were union. I know it would certainly open up more doors for me. But, well, what DB said.
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[KaraEdwards]

I'm answering yes, and then falling back on the wisdom of my friends above.

In other words, ditto.
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[bobbinbeamo]

The union's benefits are a great thing, but the law requires a true employer-employee relationship, which is why there's such scrutiny over self-signatories. Members with their own PSC's (personal services corporations) have gotten by with running their own jobs and getting benefits, and paying income taxes...which can conflict with Federal law and in the end members are working for less than scale on their own jobs. So the union has been forced to audit some those set ups because of many factors, mainly due to ERISA regs and pension benes. Insurance fraud is also a real possibility. It's a tough one. I always like to remain hopeful, but to try to get the union to do anything new is like trying to turn around the Titanic.
I have seen a fast and steep decline in available union work over the last 5-10 years and I don't think it's going to end.

Thank God I'm vested.
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[Deirdre]

What about union electricians or carpenters?
Who's their employer?

If this is the only law that dictates how we work, we need to amend the law.
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[ccpetersen]

What everybody else has said, but let me chime in from the POV of a signatory. I had to become a Sig to hire union talent for productions. I didn't have a problem with that because, at the time I first signed -- some 25 years ago -- the best talents around WERE union talent and that was that. Things have changed since then. I DO have my own corporation and could self-sig because we DO satisfy all the requirements. I think, as Deebs points out, having a sig in the loop adds unnecessary expense for the folks who aren't union sigs but want the benefit of a union performer (and are willing to pay for it). Why should they get hassled around and have to pay more?

Hope this makes sense. I'd like to see a friendlier union, too. As it is, the amount of work I do wouldn't qualify me for much under SAG yet, although AFTRA looks easier to join (or at least more welcoming).
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[TC]

Yes, I would join.

[Bob Bergen]

Just want you all to know your answers and comments are all very helpful and informative. Keep em coming! Thanks for taking the time!!

BB