VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Melanie Haynes]

Hi all,

I've been meaning to ask if anyone is aware of a "deadbeat" list? I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a long time ago, I heard about or ran across a deadbeat list that some vo talent were compiling..... Sensitive topic, I understand, but it sounds like it might be helpful to warn others of potential problems.

Anyone know anything about this? Was it here or some other VO chat?
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SaVoa#08019

www.melaniehaynes.com

832-912-9250

[Philip Banks]

Whether there was or not I would advise against it as it would prove a legal minefield if word got out to the wrong people, specifically the dead beats.

[Melanie Haynes]

Hi Philip! I wonder.....if a person just discussed their personal experience.....could anyone do anything? That would be rich, wouldn't it? - getting sued by a deadbeat for saying that they didn't pay you!
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SaVoa#08019

www.melaniehaynes.com

832-912-9250

[Philip Banks]

Had this discussion on a UK based VO discussion board. As the board administrator knew about my legal background I was asked for a view.

Should anyone wish to discuss an experience with a client then the content would have to comply from a legal standpoint.

No opinions or editorialising.
Facts should be stated but only those which could be proven and that means proven in law. Supporting evidence would need to be readily available.

Example.

On the 19 June 2009 Philip Banks a UK based commercial producer hired me to voice 3 radio commercials. In his email he agreed a fee of $500 per commercial. The session took place via ISDN with me at my place and Philip using Poo-poo, Lavatory and plops studio in Manchester. Session took about 45 minutes and I received an email giving me invoice details. I sent my invoice and as at today's date 12th September 2010 I have not received any payment from Mr Banks.

[glittlefield]

For the sake of argument, how would a site like this (where folks record this sort of data) be any different from the review-based sites like Angie's List or the like?
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Greg Littlefield
VO-BB Member #59

[Melanie Haynes]

[Melanie Haynes]

I believe Angie's List contacts or attempts to contact the company to give them a chance to state their side of the story......
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SaVoa#08019

www.melaniehaynes.com

832-912-9250

[Bailey]

A "yay" or "nay" listing would be better handled under the auspices of the BBB... if possible.
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"Bailey"
a.k.a. Jim Sutton
Retired... Every day is Saturday, except Sunday.
VO-BB Member #00044 .gif" alt="W00T" border="0" />
AOVA Graduate 02/2004 ;
"Be a Voice, not an Echo."

[Deirdre]

Read the rules, Melanie. There's a whole section about posting complaints.

http://www.vo-bb.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2015
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DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[Melanie Haynes]

Hi Deirdre, Well I guess it wasn't ever on your site, then, thanks! I wasn't going to post anything, but just thought I'd run across one or mention of one somewhere. I was just curious. Thought I had read all the rules, but guess I forgot you forbade anything like that or I wouldn't have even asked, sorry.....
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SaVoa#08019

www.melaniehaynes.com

832-912-9250

[Deirdre]

We occasionally will post something like "Isn't it a shame that Radio Imaging Works continues to make promises of payment over the phone that they never follow thru on."

Stuff that is absolutely factual and unencumbered by editorializing is sometimes OK. But several years ago we considered a Wall Of Shame and summarily threw the idea out because of the possibility of ensuing litigiousness.
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DBCooperVO.com
IMDB

[Mike Sommer]

[jsgilbert]

At the risk of getting a lawsuit, I would advise you all not to do business with eihter Two Fingers Tony, Vincent "Scratcher" Gabagool or a fellow who simply identifies himself as "I'm your friend. C'mon Palsy Walsy, whaddya say?"
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j.s. gilbert

js@jsgilbert.com
www.jsgilbert.com

"today is the first day of the rest of the week"

[jsgilbert]

Regarding the BBB, there is an old wive's tail stating that Al Capone had founded the Better Business Bureau. Alfonse Capone was born in 1899 and the BBB was founded in 1912, ths Capone would have had to have been a very precocious 12 year old for the story to be true.

What can be said is that Capone setup his protection scheme very closely based on the BBB. A business would regulalrly pay Capone and in exchange they got an insignia to put up that indicated to anyone who even remotely thought of robbing said business that the joint was under the protection of Al Capone.

Receiving a nod of approval from the BBB these days should mean very little, because it isn't necessarily relative of anything steeped in truth. Just as complaints in Yelp are both too easy to place and often simply vindictive.

I am currently doing business with a client who I consider a dream client. Lots of lead time, pay my going rates, available when I don't understand something or need clarification and they pay fairly well. The guy I replaced, plain and simple "sucked". He has for quite sometime spread several lies about this client, including their having "not paid him". They not only paid him, but they paid him for work they wound up not using and they paid him within 10 days of receipt of his invoice.

Perhaps we should look at this as the time of mass "misinformation". It's hard to know how to listen to when it comes to advice on any level.

I know of a recent story where a person has gone out of their way to try and destroy the reputation of a particular "mail receipt and shipping store". He has claimed almost everything but child molestation (which may come next)However the owner tells a very different story. Apparently the store closes promptly at 7 every day. The clerk shuts the doors at 7:05 or so, then cashes out and does his bookeeping, etc. so that he can leave promptly at 7:30 every day. Regular clients know that they can often come to the back door up until 7:20 or so to still conduct the odd transaction. The person doing the complaining however, apparently can' make it there until 7:35 - 7:45 and expects the clerk to stay to accomodate him getting his packages, etc.

According to the owner, "I was paying $200 a month in overtime to a client who rented a $20 mailbox from me. And while they have severed ties, the ease by which can "complain" via the internet has made this business owners life a living hell.

As someone who works with clients to find, cast, direct, etc. different voice talent, I am pretty safe in saying that the ones who tend to post about their clients being the bad guys, stand a much smaller chance of getting work than the one's whose online personas make it appear they are professional and grateful for their work.

Recently I found two talent for a local project. One showed up early and not only thanked the client profusely, but also sent a thank you card. The other talent made a point of saying how "jammed" their day was and made the client simply feel they wer another notch in the old microphone.

Guess which one has been asked back next week to work with me?

A very good client of mine who always indicates in his e-mails that, due to a particular client's billing system it will probably be 75 - 85 days before payment is made. Both he and his client have excellent reputations beyond this.

He further advises that if you have any issue with waiting up to 85 days for payment that you should not audition.

He had a talent audition and do a job for him, and then said talent subsequently hounded him daily for payment. Despite his backtracking emails to indicate his "warning", the talent persisted to the point where they said they would contact his client and demand payment from them.

I know this talent and was going to refer them to 2 different clients of mine just prior to hearing this. In fact, when I asked the talent what had happened they weren't able to give me any rationalefor what they did, except to spin a story of some bizare form of entitlement.

Just be careful.
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j.s. gilbert

js@jsgilbert.com
www.jsgilbert.com

"today is the first day of the rest of the week"

[Jeffrey Kafer]

As my paranoid father says "Even if you only disclose the facts of your situation without editorializing, you may be in the legal right. However, do you have the funds to defend your right?"

Justice ain't free.
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Jeff
http://JeffreyKafer.com
Voice-overload Web comic: http://voice-overload.com