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D Voice
Been Here Awhile
Joined: 26 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: another (simpler?) phone patch |
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Hope everyone is not too worn out with the recent phone patch discussion. I have a slight variation:
I have an old Samson Mixpad 9 I decided to try to use for phone patch sessions (via Skype). No mute buttons, or anything like that.
Trying to use a single (X computer; the Mixpad 9 mixer; and USB AD/DA Interface (E-Mu 0404), and Skype.
Tested this in Audacity, but will be probably be using Audition or Cubase later.
Anyway:
1. Recording software is setup to record and playback via USB channel.
2. Skype setup to record and playback via PC sound card.
3. I am still listening over headphones, via the mixer headphone jack.
Recording:
a) interface via USB to PC
b) mic is plugged into the interface (condenser mic, phantom power engaged).
c) Interface output to (arbitrarily chosen) Ch. 2 Line Input of the mixer (via 1/4" mono cable). Trim set to around -8.
I can definitely hear recording and monitor playback from the recording software over the headphones.
Skype:
d) mixer Ch. 2: Aux 1 Pre set to approx 0 or lower
e) Aux 1 Send 1/4" output to PC mic input (via 1/4" mono cable; 1/4" to 1/8" stereo adapter into PC input).
f) PC (speaker Output) to mixer Ch. 8/9 stereo inputs. (using 1/4" Stereo to Dual 1/4" Mono cable; 1/4" stereo plug fitted with 1/4" female to 1/8" male adapter at PC end).
I can hear on Skype; they can hear me.
But for some reason, over Skype when I play it back, they can hear me live, but they CANNOT hear the PLAYBACK. This is even though both my mic and playback are coming via the interface, through the mixer, out Aux 1 Send to the soundcard.
To repeat, I CAN hear recording software playback via the mixer.
And here is the strange thing:
Skype Call Testing Service WAS able to record both my voice AND the playback from the recording software, and play both back for me.
But for some reason, when I am talking to a live human, and play it back, they only hear me and my mic, not the playback.
Stumped. What am I missing? Something I should be doing differently?
Or is there a better/simpler way?
Last edited by D Voice on Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cyclometh
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Joined: 06 Aug 2010
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Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
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If it worked with the Call Testing Service, it should work with a human caller. The only difference is that the Call Testing Service just records what you sent and sends it back, so if you could make it work there, it will work. In order for it to have played it back you had to be able to send it, so my guess is there was just a mistake made during the call with a human.
Given that the mic and playback signals are coming in to the mixer on the same cable, if one works and you can hear the other, it's just a question then of levels.
Try some more tests with the CTS and note if the playback levels seem very low or distorted in some way.
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KaseyKruz
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Corey is right, if it worked with Call Service, it should work with the caller.
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D Voice
Been Here Awhile
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If it worked with the Call Testing Service, it should work with a human caller. |
one would think.
A listener said he could hear something, but it was very faint.
BTW does it matter if these cables and adapters are mono or stereo?
They are as described above, but just wondering what is necessary, or that might be an issue. |
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cyclometh
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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The aux send will be a mono signal, so you need a cable that converts the mono to a stereo signal for the PC input. Thinking about it I've had similar results when I had the wrong type of cable; very little sound or just crackling sounds.
The adapter from the aux send to your PC is probably a stereo 1/4" to stereo 1/8", but it's taking in a mono signal, resulting in your current situation.
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sounddguy
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Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 100
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: another (simpler?) phone patch |
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| D Voice wrote: |
But for some reason, over Skype when I play it back, they can hear me live, but they CANNOT hear the PLAYBACK. This is even though both my mic and playback are coming via the interface, through the mixer, out Aux 1 Send to the soundcard.
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Are you certain that you had the Aux 1 feed for input 8/9 up for playback? |
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georgethetech
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Holy cow, I have one of those crappy mixpads, too! I mean who thought it was a good idea to make a mixer with no phantom power switch and no headphone volume control?
If you are sending and receiving the same signal at the same time, Skype will cancel it out automatically with its echo cancellation. Make sure you aren't looping back the caller's signal back to Skype again. The mix minus is crucial to making this work correctly, which is why mixers like this without a separate monitor or alt 3/4 bus rarely work.
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D Voice
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Soundguy wrote: | Quote: | | Are you certain that you had the Aux 1 feed for input 8/9 up for playback? |
Input 8/9 are L/R line inputs from the PC (speaker) output. Aux 1 send is the line signal into the PC.
I am pretty sure I have already tried Aux 1/2 and Aux 3/4 Return for PC out/mixer in, to no avail.
soundgun wrote: | Quote: | | Make sure you aren't looping back the caller's signal back to Skype again. |
That's why I though about using the Aux 1 Send- it is pre-fader, so I have the Aux 1 knob on 8/9 all the way down (which is the PC soundcard out signal), and use the fader to adjust the volume of the other party so I can hear them without them getting feedback. |
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D Voice
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Corey wrote: | Quote: | | The aux send will be a mono signal, so you need a cable that converts the mono to a stereo signal for the PC input. Thinking about it I've had similar results when I had the wrong type of cable; very little sound or just crackling sounds. |
I am in Japan, and haven't located a mono to stereo cable yet. Using mono cable with an adapter at the PC end:
From Aux 1 Send I am using a mono 1/4" cable, plugged into a small 1/4" (female) to 1/8" (male) stereo adapter, which is plugged into the mic input on the computer.
Using the same type of plug from the PC (speaker) out, with a single (stereo) 1/4" to dual (stereo) 1/4" cable which are plugged into the 8/9 line inputs.
As I say, I have the Aux 1 Send knob all the way down on 8/9, and use the Levels to hear the other side. |
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KaseyKruz
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:18 am Post subject: Re: another (simpler?) phone patch |
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| sounddguy wrote: |
Are you certain that you had the Aux 1 feed for input 8/9 up for playback? |
That would create a feedback loop. Channel 8/9 is audio from the skype PC. It doesnt need to go back to the Skype PC.
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KaseyKruz
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Try using Aux 2 instead of Aux 1
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KaseyKruz
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| D Voice wrote: |
I am in Japan, and haven't located a mono to stereo cable yet. Using mono cable with an adapter at the PC end:
From Aux 1 Send I am using a mono 1/4" cable, plugged into a small 1/4" (female) to 1/8" (male) stereo adapter, which is plugged into the mic input on the computer.
Using the same type of plug from the PC (speaker) out, with a single (stereo) 1/4" to dual (stereo) 1/4" cable which are plugged into the 8/9 line inputs.
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The Mic input is mono so no need for a stereo plug there. I would try the Line In on the PC rather than the Mic input anyway.
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D Voice
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| soundgun wrote: | | Holy cow, I have one of those crappy mixpads, too! I mean who thought it was a good idea to make a mixer with no phantom power switch and no headphone volume control? |
Yeah, but small, lightweight, and it still works. That big pro sound store on La Cienega sold it to me a long time ago, as something mostly to practice with. Would largely like to just set and forget for phone patches, or in a pinch for recording interviews around town.
It is essentially just to monitor, so the Main Level knob essentially acts as the headphone volume control.
Yes, "phantom power to the XLR inputs are always on", I have to use the trim nearly always up (it goes to +50) for condenser mics. But it lets me use both dynamic and condenser mics at the same time. I record in the other room, so I could see how this might be useful.
| Quote: | | If you are sending and receiving the same signal at the same time, Skype will cancel it out automatically with its echo cancellation. Make sure you aren't looping back the caller's signal back to Skype again. The mix minus is crucial to making this work correctly, which is why mixers like this without a separate monitor or alt 3/4 bus rarely work |
Where should I look for looping back?
When the recording software plays back, the signal is sent from the PC to the (E-Mu) interface via USB channel. The interface then send both that signal mixed with the mic input via the interface line output to the mixer input Channel 2. I hear it there, using the Trim and Level.
Aux 1 Sends a signal (pre-fader) back to the PC and Skype via line in.
Skype is set to input and output from the soundcard (SoundMAX Digital Audio). I do notice that Skype sometimes it tries to jump to the interface for mic input, but when I reset the input to (SoundMAX Digital Audio),the problem persists.
Could it somehow be a phase problem?
Last edited by D Voice on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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D Voice
Been Here Awhile
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| KaseyKruz wrote: | | Try using Aux 2 instead of Aux 1 |
Aux 2 is post-fader (Aux 1 Send is pre-fader)- I use the faders to hear them as well as myself. Wouldn't that create a feedback loop? |
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KaseyKruz
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| D Voice wrote: | | Aux 2 is post-fader (Aux 1 Send is pre-fader)- I use the faders to hear them as well as myself. Wouldn't that create a feedback loop? |
Not if you dont send 8/9 to Aux 2
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