VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[Lori Berman]

Hi all,
Greetings from rainy, cold, raw New England...
Quick background --I have done v/o work on the side for years..typically send a client an invoice after a job is done and for the most part all has been fine. Now trying to ramp up the career a bit, and I've joined some of our "favorite" pay to play sites. Last week I get an email from a client on one of these sites, saying they'd like to book me for the job. Great! They tell me when they'd like the record, they ask if I'm available, if there is any sort of billing preferences I should let them know about. I reply back, yes, would love to work with you --am available on that day ---and with new clients, I typically ask for 1/2 up front and half when the job is complete (it's a $400 job so it's not like we're talking a huge chunk of change..)
I wait. And wait. And don't hear back from the client again. It's possible I still might hear since the record date wasn't till the end of May but now I'm thinking maybe they didn't want to deal with the "half-up front" deal.
Was it a mistake to request that? I did research them and they seem to be a legit production house. So now I'm thinking I should have just taken the job and taken my chances re payment, b/c 99% of the time I'd likely get paid.
Just wondering what standard operating procedure for invoicing is for some of you guys. If I don't hear back from the client, I think I'll just take my chances in the future and bill when the job is done vs asking for any amt of payment up front (i'd rather try and build up a client base as easily and effortlessly as possible vs never even having the chance)..

Would love to hear your thoughts tho'...

thanks,
lori

[bobsouer]

Lori,

Maybe I'm an idiot, but I never ask for money upfront from any client, including new ones. In the last 5 years, I've had 3 clients insist on paying me half upfront, but I've never asked. On the other hand, if I'm not sure about a client's willingness or ability to pay, I don't accept work from them in the first place. I hope this is at least a little helpful.

Oh, in 28 years of professional voiceover work, I've only been stiffed 4 times and only one of those was in the last 15 years.
_________________
Be well,
Bob Souer (just think of lemons)
The second nicest guy in voiceover.
+1-724-613-2749
Source Connect, phone patch, pony express

[Scott Pollak]

I'm mostly with Bob, although on a few occasions I HAVE asked for a portion up front. It mostly involved extremely large projects from brand new clients.... say something involving hours of narration that would run into the several thousands of dollars. Then what I did was ask for, say, 1/3 up front to get the project rolling, another 1/3 upon delivery of all audio, and the final 1/3 payable upon sign-off and approval.

But those have been rare cases.

And, like Bob, I think I've only been stiffed twice that I can remember and it was for very low amounts, like less than $200.

A $400 job isn't worth splitting payments up for, ESPECIALLY if you ascertained they were a reputable client! In the future, do the job, make sure they're happy, then invoice, unless you have good reason to suspect they may be slow-paying and if the job is of such long-term duration and so much work that it's only logical to ask for payment in segments along the way.

Oh, and Bob? I doubt ANYONE here thinks you're an idiot!
_________________
Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.

www.voicebyscott.com

[todd ellis]

i'm with bob. maybe i'm naive, but i just send an invoice marked "payment due upon receipt". i've never been stiffed. now, it HAS taken some time to get money out of a few ... but we've managed to work it out.

that said - i don't think 1/2 down would be a deal-killer with most folks.



(34)
_________________
"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?

[Bruce]

Ah, but Lori noted this was from a P2P site and a client she's never worked with before. Don't most of the P2P sites "require" full payment up front? ...and with some good reason as they have a higher percentage of dodgy clients than we might run into on our own?

With clients that come out of the blue with no recommendation from someone I trust and no way to check them out, such as no website, I usually ask for the whole amount up front, and usually get it...AND ALWAYS WITH POLITICAL CLIENTS.

I also have a couple of long term clients that I don't trust to be timely and they have to pay upfront every time.

Like the other gents, however, I haven't been stiffed on a invoice in ages.

B
_________________
VO-BB Member #31 Enlisted June, 2005

I'm not a Zoo, but over the years I've played one on radio/TV. .

[Rognog]

I also have never asked for any money upfront and have never been stiffed. I would like to think that if you accept the right job from the right client and present yourself as a prepared, competent professional, all will go well. At least, all SHOULD go well!
_________________
Tom Dheere - The "H" is Silent, but I'm Not!
www.tomdheere.com

[Lori Berman]

Thanks all for your thoughts....
Funny --immediately after typing this post I turned to my email, and there was a message from the client. She had been out of the office all week and apologized for the delay. I think we are still on
At this point I'll just do the job and send the invoice once complete. I also have never been stiffed, tho in most cases my work has come from local clients and/or thru networks, so I never thought twice about it.

P2P sites make me a bit more skeptical --on two separate occasions a client has contacted me saying they really liked an audition, could I just re-voice it a little bit "this way" --I have --and then I've never heard back. Makes me wonder a bit.

Anyway, thanks all for your thoughts. And, Bob, I figure if YOU'RE not asking for 1/2 up front, at this point, I don't need to be either

lori

[Lee Gordon]

Like the others, I rarely, if ever, ask for an up-front payment, although, unlike some of them, I have been stiffed once or twice. But I consider it an acceptable risk because, while "time is money," we generally don't incur out-of-pocket expenses to do any particular voiceover. On the other hand, if a potential client balks at paying a relatively small amount in advance, it could be a sign that you might be in for a difficult time getting paid -- or at least getting paid in timely fashion.

If you think asking for partial payment could have jeopardized the job, you might send a follow-up e-mail asking if your terms were agreeable.

*(As I was typing this, an e-mail arrived from Voices.com informing me that "YOU HAVE RECEIVED A DEPOSIT." Although I don't particularly relish giving them 9% of my talent fee for every SurePay job I get, it does eliminate the uncertainty about whether I'll see my money.)
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice

[bransom]

Hi, Lori,

I'm glad your project seems to be working out. I think any legit business is used to being presented with advance payment requirements. It doesn't mean they say yes to them necessarily but they certainly should be familiar with the concept and be used to dealing with it. Some clients can pay up front, some can't because of corporate A/R policy. It varies by client. Anybody that truly disappears without explanation because of the request, you didn't want anyway.

Having said that, for voiceovers, I've never requested upfront payment nor have I ever been stiffed. In my other life, as a designer, I do sometimes ask for upfront money for large or expensive-to-produce projects, and none of the production companies or ad agencies I work for bats an eye. And, knock on wood, I've only been stiffed once, 15 years ago, by a client who went into bankruptcy a week after I completed the job. (Two years later, I got 10-cents on the dollar from the bankruptcy settlement.)

Now, getting ad agencies to pay in a reasonable amount of time: that's an on-going battle.
_________________
Bob Ransom
"I really need a pithy quote here."

[Lori Berman]

Yep, project is moving forward so I'm psyched. Haven't mentioned anything about the pre-payment again so I think at this point I'll let it go. I did a bit of research and they are a reputable company and have a history of transactions on this P2P site, so I'm feeling reassured.
Thanks to all for your thoughts/words of wisdom.

[Jeffrey Kafer]