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VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!
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jordanreynolds
Contributor II
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 58
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: Ribbon Microphones for Voice Over |
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Hey everyone!
I just wanted to let you guys know that I recently reviewed two Shure ribbon microphones specifically for voice over. This is my second ribbon microphone voice over review and I have to say that I've learned a lot.
Most importantly - ribbons are definitely suitable for voice over! If the idea of getting a ribbon for your VO studio has ever crossed your mind this will really help.
http://recordinghacks.com/2012/01/10/shure-ksm313-ksm353-ribbons-voiceover/
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todd ellis
A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10529
Location: little egypt
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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i really dig the ksm 353! i have, and sometimes use a vintage rca 77-dx, refurbished by clarence kane @ enak and i love it like another child.
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting you mention "ribbons". Recently I have a chance to work with some new ribbons; from SAMAR Audio Design and another company.
The silkiness of a ribbon is nice, but I find most ribbons to be dark and have a bit much low end. S.A.D. owner, Mark, quickly made an adjustment after my comment and the mic came alive with crystal clarity.
Both mics had the same inherent problem with mids and highs - both were a bit shrill (until the adjustment) when driven hard or with too much proximity and much like a dynamic had almost no level when spoken to softly. I may need to hire Mark to make the adjustments every time I plug a "ribbon" in.
I have not been a fan of "ribbons" for VOist use, and have not yet changed my mind. But with new "ribbon motors" of different metals - I do find some use for vocals (singing) and an occasional VO here and there.
To each ear their own.
Jordan, glad to see the reviews. Keep up the good work.
Frank F
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sounddguy
Contributor IV
Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 100
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Frank F wrote: | Mark, quickly made an adjustment after my comment and the mic came alive with crystal clarity.
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Do you know what kind of adjustment he was making ? |
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Soundguy wrote: "Do you know what kind of adjustment he was making ?" |
If I did I wouldn't have to keep him around. All I know is he opened the mic, took out a little tool, tweaked something and the mic sounded better - a lot better.
Mark is a genius when it comes to mics, he the reason some of the mic modders exist (they took his designs and mods and call them their own).
Since my personal studio situation has changed (a break-in) I have been looking at modding some microphones myself and Mark is guiding me toward Valhala. A couple of capacitors, a few resistors, and a new JFET or two can work wonders for re-voicing some Chinese circuits; not to mention for changing the color of a mic (I am painting my modded versions    ).
Oh, I have to add this thought regarding VOist's and "ribbons": "When a ribbon mic is used in a group situation; such as the old style of recording the voice tracks for cartoons, etc. they are one of the most versitile in this environment".
Frank F
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Be thankful for the bad things in life. They opened your eyes to the good things you weren't paying attention to before. email: thevoice@usa.com |
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Dayo
Cinquecento
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 544
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Can't say I'm a big fan of ribbons for v/o. Never seem to get enough bite out of them. I tried a Royer R122 for a couple of days. Also had a trial of one of the Cloud ribbon mics. I really wanted to like them - especially on Emma's voice, but what I gained with smoothness and silk, I lost in other departments.
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Colin Day - UK Voiceover
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heyguido
MMD
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 2507
Location: RDU, the Geek Capitol of the South
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I, too, have one of the old RCA's, but don't drag it out very often. Some voices shine on them, though.... but they're difficult to work properly. Mic technique is even more critical on a ribbon, and modulation, too.... They're easy to overdrive, underdrive, and wickedly unforgiving of bad technique.
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Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?" |
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Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11075
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Add darkth and bassth to my voice as wouldst a ribbon do ..Oh goodness me NO! |
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jordanreynolds
Contributor II
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 58
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I will agree that certainly not all ribbon mic's are suitable for VO. For example the first review I did included the DIYAC RM-5 and the Royer R-101. They were both pretty dark but still had their upsides.
However, my second review included the Shure ribbon mic's - and these were WAY more suitable for VO. I seriously want to purchase the KSM313 and use the backside for VO. It sounds awesome.
Also, to get all deep and philosophical, one could argue that we instinctually tend to not like the darker sound of ribbon microphones on voice over - because over the past few decades all we ever hear on TV, radio, etc are voices recored on crisp/bright condensers. Once we get used to something and are presented with change we typically don't like it immediately.
Anyways, thanks for the feedback and discussion!
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Frank F
Fat, Old, and Sassy
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 4421
Location: Park City, Utah
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Jordan writes: "...over the past few decades all we ever hear on TV, radio, etc are voices recorded on crisp/bright condensers." |
Interesting thought Jordan, however inaccurate. Dynamic, tubes, FET, JFET, some electret, and pressure gradient (certain "shotgun" microphones) mics are common among the broadcast medium and recording studios the world over for everything from measurement to VO and things in-between.
Ribbon microphones are great for certain things; VO is not one of them. I commonly use a "ribbon" mic for strings, vocals, and even some in-studio multi-voice projects. Some mics are simply not suited for VO (period),
It is not that "ribbons" are inherently dark and foreboding; more it is the microphone cannot handle the transient levels and sudden SPL's of the human voice speaking. The "ribbon" microphone was and IS designed for sustained, smooth, moderated sounds by virtue of it (ribbon) motor.
Listening to the samples provided I noticed some breakage of sound in the higher frequencies and loss of sustained body in the low end in some passages on YOUR voice. This is why I do not have a "ribbon" as a go-to microphone for voiceoverists.
Your review was admirable and well conceived but the facts are the "ribbons" spoke for themselves when applied to voiceover.
The microphones reviewed are nice sounding and have their place in certain ares of the mic closet. They are of good quality and show promise to be a handy accessory for some projects.
Frank F
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billelder
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah. I have the ole RCA 77D and rarely use it for voiceover. When I did it was for a character voice and worked fairly well. But mostly it's always my trusty Symetrix 528 and an original Studio Projects C-1. |
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jordanreynolds
Contributor II
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 58
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Frank F wrote: |
Interesting thought Jordan, however inaccurate. Dynamic, tubes, FET, JFET, some electret, and pressure gradient (certain "shotgun" microphones) mics are common among the broadcast medium and recording studios the world over for everything from measurement to VO and things in-between. |
Yes, correct. I didn't mean to narrow it down to condensers only, my mistake! I am aware of the many other types of microphones that are commonly used in VO. So let me rephrase,
...over the past few decades all we ever hear on TV, radio, etc are voices recorded on crisp/bright/punchy microphones. None of which are ribbons. 
I could probably agree that a ribbon microphone isn't going to be the "goto" microphone for all projects. However, I find that specific ribbons can be much more utilized than they are today. In my opinion they deserve more use past the occasional niche project here and there.
| Frank F wrote: | | Ribbon microphones are great for certain things; VO is not one of them. |
This of course is just your opinion. Myself, and many others, would respectfully disagree. But the definition of what sounds good versus bad is all subjective .
I appreciate everyone's feedback and discussion. I find this topic very interesting as the opinions widely vary.
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Last edited by jordanreynolds on Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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georgethetech
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 1878
Location: Topanga, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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I usually ignore the ribbons at NAMM, but this time I'll take a closer look at the new Shures, and see what Cascade has to offer, and Cloud, and... there are SO MANY new ribbon mics!
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If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
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georgethetech
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 1878
Location: Topanga, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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I got to learn about the Cloud lifter today from Mr. Cloud himself, very cool product. I'll have the video posted soon as I can, stay tuned to my Youtube channel and EWABS!
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If it sounds good, it is good.
George Whittam
GeorgeThe.Tech
424-226-8528
VOBS.TV Co-host
TheProAudioSuite.com Co-host
TriBooth.com Co-founder |
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jordanreynolds
Contributor II
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 58
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the CL-1 is a fantastic product! If you don't have a clean, low noise preamp with lots of gain the CL-1 is the perfect sidekick. I actually used it in my first ribbon microhpone review on recordinghacks. It's also built like a tank too.
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