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Bish · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: ISDN hardware choices

Yes... it's another ISDN question Smile

No, it's not a "Should I do it?" or "Is it dead yet?" query Wink

I've made a business decision to go with ISDN. This was based on the sound reasoning that if just one more person said "I could give you work if you had ISDN..." Well, they did, so (with big props to Melissa for making sense of the black art for me and giving me an initial contact in Verizon who knew what they were talking about) my ISDN gets installed tomorrow.

As far as I could see I was a borderline call on the 18,000 feet, but I've got an order number, a pair of SPIDS and an appointment with the Verizon guy. All in a little over a week or so.

So, as far as I can see, my choices are between a Telos Zephyr 9202 and the Musicam Prima LT (both used). Either should be fitted with the standard U interface for US ISDN connectivity. The Telos Xstream is an option that may be future-proof (with IP connectivity), but I'm trying to keep the costs down.

As far as functionality goes, these units seem compatible and fit for purpose, and each have their devotees... but is there any real difference between the two? Which is quieter in normal running mode? Is purple paint a distraction? Is one easier to configure/use than the other?

If I don't want to chase a private sale of ebay, there's a place in Brooklyn that has both in stock... does anyone have any experience with SK Broadcast?

Cheers
peter
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georgethetech · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:49 am Post subject:

The 9202 has a noisy fan, as does the Prima LT. Xstream is fanless.
Almost every ISDN equipped studio in LA has the Zephyr hardware, so the engineer on the other end can be more helpful if you have an problem during the session (they'll know the menus). The Telos stuff is easier to configure, has better menu navigation, and is "industry standard", but the Musicam stuff works fine. Dave Immer of digifon.com is a Musicam guy, so he'd be your go-to for support.

The IP function of the Xstream is of no real use on the Internet, only on a local network with QoS guaranteed. Only the new Z/IP is designed for Internet, but has no ISDN.

Futureproofedness is difficult to determine because we still don't know what standard the VO biz will move to when the ISDN switch is turned off. The Mayah C1411 or Musicam RoadWarrior LT is the closest I've seen to achieving that goal, but in my experience very finicky to setup. Source Connect has a several year head start of market penetration over any hardware IP device, but Telos is the 800 lb gorilla and if they learn to market to the VO industry, could take over.
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Bruce · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject:

Sorry George, but the Musicam Prima LT doesn't have a fan. It may be purple with bright yellow buttons, but there's no fan and therefore no noise except for the delightful chirp it makes when someone connects with you.

It's been ages since I've bought mine but my understanding is that the Musicam automatically detects the configuration of the machine calling you and adjusts itself without fiddling around, while you might have to re-set certain Telos codecs by hand if someone calls you in a different format than the last one you were called in. That could be a load of BS, too.

I do know this: 99.9% of the jobs I've done are in exactly the same MPEG2 format so you'll likely never have to worry about formatting after job #1.

I vote for a quality used machine. It looks like it's going to take forever for a single Internet protocol to be determined.

B
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Ed Gambill · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject:

When I see “Industry Standard” I cringe, that phrase is the guiding light for folks who do not do their own home work

Now to Musicam, this from there web site.

Founded in 1977 by two former Bell Telephone Laboratories engineers, MUSICAM USA has pioneered low-cost implementations of the International Standards Organization and CCIR Standards known as MPEG Audio.

Before ISDN, an AT&T/Bell Lab invention there was another audio codec (That I Can’t Find Right Know) .
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Bish · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject:

I dug into the Musicam web info, and sure enough, it seems like the Prima LT is fan-less. The noise (or lack thereof) is important as I don't use a booth... my 8'x12' treated room is my studio, office and editing suite, and I manage to keep it pretty quiet because the MacPro and the various drive units are in an adjacent computer room (er, crawlspace). I'd always thought that it would be best to have the ISDn box in my working environment... so that puts the quiet one ahead by a nose...
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georgethetech · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject:

Bruce, no need to apologize!
I stand corrected, sorry for the inaccurate information. Most of the Musicam hardware I've dealt with have fans, so I "ASS-umed" the LT does as well.
All things being equal, go with the Prima LT, which I know you can get a lot cheaper than the Xstream. There was one at a post house I visited a few weeks ago and they seemed to be happy with it. MPEG L2 Mono 128 codec standard for ISDN in VO (that I feel safe calling an industry standard) will likely never change, so don't worry about needing to support the likes of AAC or APT.

"...who do not do their own home world" Ed, you mean "homework"? Just want to catch your meaning there.

OK, maybe it isn't an industry standard, but in my little corner of the world I've come across mostly Telos hardware, Musicam second, and AudioTX Communicator third, and various others like Mayah fourth. Loved the Tieline G3 Commander hardware, HATED the software setup (took hours with the manufactures' support to get it working).
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Ed Gambill · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject:

George'

In a world with out any mistakes, you would be out of business. Sorry about using the wrong word.

I would sooner believe that MUSICAM is more the standard, as they were about 9 years ahead of Telos with there implementation of MP2.

But then I am willing to investigate and learn for myself rather than take the word of any Guru.

In a World… Where Home Work Happens ….Expertise Flourishes.
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georgethetech · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject:

Bruce and Jeff, if I am overstepping my authority on this board, I am willing to leave... Just let me know.

I am only sharing my personal experience as it comes. Others are sure to have years more than I, so if that's all that counts, I understand.

Sorry this thread "went there".
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Ed Gambill · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:29 pm Post subject:

Lord don't even think about leaving on my account, it just a conversation.
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Bish · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject:

OK, if I'm getting the right drift here...

No difference:
Either is going to cost me around $1000~$1500 for a good used one.
Both support the same codecs and will happily talk to each other.

Telos Zephyr advantage:
More common and probably more tech & configuration support from clients.
Maybe marginally cheaper.

Musicam Prima LT advantage:
Quiet and will probably sit well in my studio environment.
Damn pretty.

I'm leaning towards the Musicam...
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Chuck Davis · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:28 am Post subject:

Sounds like you've got it solved Bish. The 9202 is a standard of sorts...mostly because there are so many of them out there..But I know the Prima is well represent as well. As far as L2/128 goes...that's always the requested settings these days. I've only encountered one situation where layer 3 (L3 stereo) was requested. (radio always uses G.722..but mostly for ballgames..and it sounds awful)
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Tom Test · DC Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 629 Location: Chicago, IL

Bish, I purchased a Musicam off of eBay awhile back, and it had a noisy fan. Maybe if was an earlier model, but make certain you're getting a fanless unit before you buy. My Musicam was DOA, so i had to send it back and got a Telos 9202 from an NYC eBay dealer with excellent feedback. To be safe, I sent it to Telos for them to go though it with a fine tooth comb and upgrade the firmware. It cost me another $600! I was able to get my eBay seller to pay half of that cost, but without the advantages to the buyer of the eBay feedback system he may not have been so willing. (As it was, he tried to make me feel like I was extorting him).

As an aside, I had two very strange experiences lately with my ISDN, both of which required me to switch to L3. One was a wonky Source-Connect bridge session that would not connect until we switched to L3. The other was a straight ISDN to ISDN connect with a studio in NYC. They could connect to several other ISDN studios. I could connect with Dave Immer just fine. But we could not connect with each other! The only way we got it going was to switch to L3, which worked like a champ. Dave was befuddled.

I guess my story shows that the reliability of ISDN is declining, as the telcos refuse to properly maintain their network. Still VERY much worth investing in, if the business is out there for you. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do this 10 years ago! But I'm hedging my bets, and am also now investing in Source Connect as well (once I get a wonky router-modem issue sorted out...grrrrrrr....)
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imaginator · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:27 am Post subject:

..tom - the old musicam roadrunner (which i wore out after some 15 years of use) did have a very noisy fan. i had to keep it outside my booth, but that was the only drawback.

its successor, called the roadwarrior, is absolutely quiet.

agree the telcos are screwing up the system. and ISDN is not for everyone. but it's been my lifeline to work outside the geographic area for years. i've only recently been able to start adding clients who are just as happy with a phone-patch and an ftp delivery later (and that speaks more to my marketing skills than the technical side of things).
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Bish · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:15 am Post subject:

So, if I stick with the Prima LT, no fan issues.

The saga continues... I knew it was too good to be true Cry

The Verizon guy arrived and actually understood ISDN (he'd installed a couple of home-based radio presenter studios). He looked at the work order and started to shake his head... "We're going copper all the way? It's probably too far!". On checking, it turns out that the copper distance is right on the limit, but is also currently double-loaded (which would require another Verizon group to remove both the loading coils on the run**). It turns out that there's a fibre-fed sub-station a half mile down the road. The engineer said all they needed to do was put the ISDN card in the slot, and we're good to go. Of course, that's another group and the guy is out until Monday.

**Tech crap: Telco lines and networks are historically designed to give a flat frequency response over the CSB (commercial speech band, approx 300-3400Hz). One way of doing this is to slap in something like an 88mH loading coil every mile or so. This does wonders for promoting a reasonably flat frequency response over the CSB, but the roll-off after 3.4kHz is not so much a slope as a steep cliff plunging towards an abyss. Regular twisted copper pairs have a fairly linear slope over a much wider range, and can be usable for high bandwidth applications (such as ISDN) over a few miles when left untreated. This is great... but the pre-installed loading coils have to be removed... and sometimes that can mean disturbing stuff that's been installed for decades... and they don't like to do it.

Here endeth the lesson from The Bishop Wink

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Deirdre · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:42 am Post subject:

I put a switch into the fan circuit of my Zephyr, so it's off while the session is actually in progress, and on for start-up and cool-down. Since I keep it in an open rack with loads of head room, I never have heat issues.
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