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Full Sail for someone interested in audio engineering?
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Full Sail for someone interested in audio engineering? Reply with quote

hey guys - i need an honest (maybe even educated) opinion on Full Sail University for Boy #2. he wants to go into audio engineering and has been told this is the place to be - without regard to the (in this dad's opinion) high cost. that said - i want to be fair.

i am no audio engineer - what i know i have picked up along the way, and like many of us in the vo world sort of muddle through on the engineering side as best i can. his goal is to work in the film/television/recording studio environment.

i have my own thoughts - but i'd like to hear yours ... particularly those of you techie-types with experience in the aforementioned fields.

how 'bout it?
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bobsouer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todd,

I believe Dan Friedman knows something first hand about Full Sail. If he doesn't pop in here with a comment, you might send him a note directly.
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roger
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todd,
Full Sail has a very good reputation, but is a tad on the expensive side, although you can actually earn an AA degree
A possible alternative is the Recording Workshop in Chillicothe, OH. a lot less expensive and less time involvement.
A good first exposure to the industry and smaller investment. If it's not his cup of tea, less time and money wasted.
My son attended for a while and although he didn't go into the biz, he got a lot out of it. I don't believe they offer a degree either.
It's a small, well equipped campus with lots of hands-on with live bands.
Check them out at http://recordingworkshop.com/
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Monk
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've met a few "Full Sail" students, and they tend to come out of there with more self confidence than skill.

The guys I worked with at The Plant in Sausalito CA would intern with some top notch engineers, then they would work at night at local clubs doing live sound.

Then they move on and land better and better gigs. It's the old school way of becoming an engineer vs a sound guy.

I would get the degree at a college, get the background on acoustics and how sound actually works verses being a knob twiddler. Any good engineer will take on someone who is willing to learn. (at least the ones I work with)
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked into them when I was preparing to go to school, and found that they have a lot of "general" classes to cover degree requirements. I decided, instead, to pursue the Conservatory for Recordig Arts school.

http://www.audiorecordingschool.com/

They don't offer the full degrees, but offer certifications that involve a lot more actual audio engineering. I ended up not being able to move to AZ though so I never actually went.
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Donna
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out Webster University right here in St Louis.
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Jeffrey Kafer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to a regular college and get a business degree. While doing so, intern like crazy at a recording studio to learn the real world stuff. That's what I did 20 years ago.
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georgethetech
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In hindsight I can agree with Jeff K on this...
I had a blast at Virginia Tech, wasted some of my parent's money, got a degree, but very little of what I did/learned there translated into the real world. Full Sail is sure full of the whiz-bang toys of the great commercial studios of yesteryear, but how many of those studios are left, and who are they hiring? It's a huge expense to turn around and make minimum wage interning and assisting. REAL WORLD experience trumps a 4 yr, or even 2 yr college degree, IMHO. Learn on some crappy, cheap mics, a mackie mixer, and a computer, and get every ounce you can out of the gear you've got. Record anything and everything. It will make you a better engineer when dealing with the realities of the day to day recording situation (that's what my experience has taught me).

Listen to a TON of MUSIC, MOVIES, and anything that relates to the field of audio in which you want to work. Ear-training is crucial.

(In full disclosure, I am paying my wife's student loans every month from Brooks Institute of Photography, which was med-school expensive, and we'll be paying Sallie Mae for many, many years to come).
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Jeffrey Kafer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually have 2 degrees in broadcasting/cinema with an emphasis in audio production.

And to this day, I use none of it. To be fair, I studied at a state school on all analog stuff, right when digital production was just taking off, but I can't think of a time I've ever said "Boy, I sure am glad I learned THAT in college." And it never once helped me get a job. It only helped me get internships. And it sounds impressive at cocktail parties. I don't go to cocktail parties.

My internships, however, taught me how to deal with talent, take care of equipment, roll cables, clean tape heads, how to interact with customers, all sorts of things that you just don't learn in school. Ya know, the day-to-day.

And as we keep saying to all the newbs, this is a business first, so why not get a business degree?
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Bish
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard some good things about Full Sail from movie people, but I tend to agree with some of the comments here about the nature of "audio engineering". It's a very hands-on business which (imho) you learn by doing it. However, you certainly need some basic electrical & electronics knowledge to understand the underlying principles. I carried my electrical and electronics training into my "hobby" which was producing local bands, recording demos and wrangling stage equipment (OK, I was a roadie for a while) ... and producing my own "experimental electronic" music. Tape manipulation, home-made electronics and pretty bad playing of traditional instruments.... all the time learning what works and what doesn't... and more importantly, how to nail that ground loop hum immediately. Sound design for movies is a different thing... I can see that study may help there... but the engineering side is just the application of basic engineering principles and practical skills in an audio production environment. I'd be interested in seeing the course curriculum to see how much time is spent on the engineering principles behind the knob-twiddling. Seriously... do they teach the difference between a linear and a logarithmic potentiometer?
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Philip Banks
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or is neg8% the same as zero level tone or 4 on a Hobo ToungeM? Our sound engineer experts never mention FLAC etc.

Electronics degree - Good idea
Law degree - Good idea
Arts based degree - Not a great idea
Recording/sound engineer - Earn while you learn
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heyguido
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Todd....

Check into the Recording Industry program at Middle Tennessee State University. One of the nation's best, and not so far from home. State of the art facilities, world-class faculty, and a well-rounded curriculum in all phases of the industry. (full disclosure: I did it and loved it.) Even a masters program.

With Nashville right out their back door, there are opportunities for real-world internships and graduate placement. Industry icons are regular speakers, and in some cases, even teach as faculty. The school maintains strong relationships with the recording, film, television, and advertising industries, and regularly hosts seminars with technology vendors, and industry pros.

Of course, as a state-funded school, they also will make sure your son gets a well-rounded education, too. Math, science, English, business, and whatnot.... You never know what he'll need down the road.

I highly recommend them. Well worth checking out.



http://recordingindustry.mtsu.edu/
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todd ellis
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks guys - i have printed your responses and i hope it helps make my point. he's really kind of dazed that i DON'T want him to go to college right now. which i understand ... it's all we've ever pushed. he's got the ambition and drive i just need to try to help him focus it. thanks again!
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Rick Riley
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i sent my youngest son to Full Sail. It's a great way to blow $40,000. He now manages a Home Depot. It didn't help that his extracurricular activities included getting a girl pregnant and instead of perusing his dreams of a film career, getting a job with regular pay that could support a family. He's doing very well with the company, and I have an awesome grandson, but the story is, he had to sacrifice the film career for one of life's curves. Too much information? The reason I say this is because once you pay, there are no guarantees you can use it.

My older son wanted to design cars. I told him to find to volunteer his time at a custom shop. He would get paid in knowledge and real world experience. A few years later, he ended up winning the Chrysler award for design and became a primary on a TV show called Street Customs. If you watch the show, his name is Chad. The only thing he paid for his education was 'time', and he ended up making six figures.

I'm with those who go with the latter attack. If you don't like what you're doing, you can bail out with no strings attached. You learn as you go and the only impetus to stay with it is desire. When someone else foots the bill, like Dad, there is no real skin in the game for the participant. IMO, desire should be the drive and nothing shows desire like learning on the job with the hope of advancement as the goal.
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Diane Maggipinto
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how exactly do you impart and make stick the birds-and-the-bees lessons ... so we don't end up grandparents to our young adults'/older teens' kids, and take care of the whole lot? makes me shudder and i'm hoping aryana joins the convent and lio becomes a priest.

i'm a big proponent of the liberal arts ... but if your kid shows enthusiasm, desire and focus toward a technical degree (a la boy #2), then it seems querying as todd did is a good place to start. that, and encouraging the kid to do his own deep, exhaustive research. i had to, and did.

also, i think all the advice above is very solid.
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