VO-BB - 20 YEARS OLD!

[georgethetech]

Verizon yanked all of the copper in this region in favor of fiber, no more ISDN. This is a surprise being a major metropolitan region. A sign of things to come... At least my client can get FiOS for Source Connect reliability.
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[Eddie Eagle]

FIOS is the Shizz!

[Dave Waters]

Have you had a chance to look at the IP codecs being used for broadcast - Telos, Tieline, Comrex, etc?

If broadcast are using them for STL, it seems like they have a lot of confidence in their reliability...
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Dave Waters
www.davewatersvo.com

[Tom Test]

This is both exciting and scary news. I've been hoping for ISDN to die quickly, as I prefer Source Connect. (But having just spent another $700 fixing my Telos Zephyr, I kinda want it to linger for a LITTLE while longer now...).

I get the impression that the talent are more ready for the demise of ISDN than the major studios are. Maybe the talent "tail" needs to wag the studio "dog" a bit more forcefully.
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Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
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[ballenberg]

[Philip Banks]

I count myself amongst the "we are NOT". It is robust and the audio quality for SPEECH is as good as a very good thing ... We only send SPEECH or if anyone has a Toob mic, distorted speech.

I don't have a toob mic but if a client makes a comment about distortion I am quick to correct them ..."That's added warmth, that is"

[Bish]

I agree that ISDN is the only real solution for real-time connection. It offers the required immediacy, bandwidth, latency and continuity. There is nothing out there that can offer all of these elements.

However, if ISDN is being slowly pulled from the market (as it is, it's not available in some "rural" areas anyway), then there will have to be usable "store & forward" solutions. SoundStreak is trying to get a foothold and Source Connect is here (to me, it's a somewhat overpriced and clunky hybrid)... others will hopefully attack the market with workable solutions that interest the studios.

Unless some method of reliable internet "tunneling" is developed that satisfies all the requirements in my first paragraph, (as per the multiple Skype rumours), then you can prise my ISDN from my cold, dead hands!
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[Tom Test]

Well perhaps I should speak for myself, then.

I'm in Chicago where my monthly line charges are $250/month, which certainly colors my opinion. But I'm glad to hear the opinions of others who have had a happier experience than my own.
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Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Bob Stevens]

It is not when but how soon ISDN is done with. The tech exists for good, reliable IP CODEC (read as over internet) but it is very expensive and proprietary on both ends. Example www.stl-ip.com

The industry is shaking out the proprietary licensing and will eventually settle on standards that will allow interoperability between manufactures in affordable sub 10k hardware. I would not be surprised to see a quality pc software solution in the sub $500 price range in the near future.

This is a great read, Everything you ever wanted to know about ISDN and IP Codec[url] http://www.tieline.com/Downloads/Audio-over-IP-Instant-Expert-Guide-v1.pdf[/url]

Bob
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"Dialog is the painting on a canvas of silence"

[heyguido]

Threadjack...

Bob, I just now realized the joke present in your avatar..... Brilliant!!!!

You may now continue....
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Don Brookshire
"Wait.... They wanna PAY me for this?"

[Bish]

I agree that it's a "when" and not an "if" question... but as far as I can see, this question has been raging for a decade or more. I also agree that if Verizon expands its policy of no copper to subscriber's premises, it could hasten ISDN's demise.

However, I am still not convinced that broadband internet solutions are going to fill the niche perfectly. Regardless of the CODEC's quality, a non-tunneled internet will still have inherent problems. I had a chat with the man from Comrex, and he was quite guarded in his replies when I brought up these issues.

The automated store and forward solutions may be the way of the future. They are (by definition) not dependent on expensive CODECs. They need to sort out the user interface issues, but SoundSource's policy of "free to the talent" may make inroads into the market.

The TieLine pdf did make interesting reading, although I did think they minimized the issues of packet loss and jitter. Buffering and error correction will only take you so far before introducing artifacts and problems of it's own.

I have a long history with network switching. I worked in the airline data communications industry before anyone had heard of the internet! We used to run the world's largest (non-governmental) communications network and I used to live and breathe packet switching and ISO 7-layer models. Dynamic routing, error correction, latency and packet re-assembly were the biggest issues even when in full control of a private network. In that respect, a user's public internet experience and QOS is still the Wild West!

I think it may well end up hinging on not whether the internet is "as good as" ISDN, but whether it is "good enough" within its inherent limitations.
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[Bob Stevens]

Re-jacked... for a moment.

Heyguido wins the booby prize!!'.gif" alt="W00T" border="0" />'

You are the first.... that I know of that got it. Thx!

Now back on track.... smoothly.....

Bish. I agree. My thinking is that is is kinda going to parallel what happened early on with isdn and internet dial-up/dsl availability. The closer you are to a backbone the better. As bandwidth and headroom increase to the burbs and rural areas, reliability will also. Tunneling would be ideal. That copper point to point reliability is going to be hard to equal. I hear they have IP down to 5ms latency though. They must be sitting on a switch.


Bob
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"Dialog is the painting on a canvas of silence"

[Tom Test]

I had a session last year at one of the top Chicago studios where they used something they called "wormhole mode" via Skype for a session for an out-of-state client. I'm pretty sure it was just basically a very high quality phone patch - all the files were recorded in Chicago and then sent to Milwaukee after the session. But for the client directing me remotely, who could also hear playbacks as well as if they were physically there, it was certainly "good enough" for their purposes. Better in fact, since they only had to employ one pro studio rather than two.

As a solo talent wearing the "engineer hat" very loosely during a phone patch session (I do also have ISDN or SC), I don't feel confident about playing back my files with my phone patch set up. But if there is a workaround for that, why wouldn't a super good VOIP phone patch work pretty much as well as ISDN or SC? I must be missing something obvious.
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Best regards,
Tom Test
"The Voice You Trust"
www.tomtest.com

[Bish]

Tom, a "super good" VoIP link would work. The problem is that there is no guarantee that super good won't deteriorate to "heap of donkey droppings" at the drop of a hat!

From what I understand, "worm-holing" is trying to be full-blown tunneling but done partially by waving the rubber chicken around your head three times and keeping your fingers crossed. Any real tunneling would have to come as a service from the pipe owners in collaboration with the ISPs, where a real (not virtual) path would be created and maintained through the network for the duration of the session. I'm on thin ice with wormholes... I need to research!
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Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls.

[Tom Test]