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Is there a real difference between DACs?
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FinMac
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Joined: 14 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Is there a real difference between DACs? Reply with quote

Hello!

I am new to the BB but not new to VO. Have been working in VO since 2008 in Finland.

Have recently built out my studio area but now I want to improve my audio chain by changing from a noisy PC to a Mac Mini, which means I need an interface.

Since I have a Great River pre, I do not care about the micpres in the DAC, just the converter itself. I have been considering a number of options, Lexicon Alpha, E-MU 0202, Presonus 22VSL, some kind of Focusrite, or even the Propellorheads Balance.

Is there really such a great difference between these units for VO and say the Apogee Duet (other than cost)?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Mac
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Last edited by FinMac on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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georgethetech
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that you're likely to detect with your ears when used in a home studio. The Alpha works great.
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heyguido
MMD


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there is a difference in the quality of DACs. Digital artifacts are the by-products of converter quality.... and the difference CAN be heard.

Finding out who supplied them to the various manufacturers is the hard part.

Cirrus Logic seems to have the edge at the moment..... Very few manufacturers share the source of their converters.

But.... I'll bet Frank may have an opinion worth hearing....

Obi Wan? Wink
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Don Brookshire
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Frank F
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac, what is your goal for audio? Pristine? Clean? Bright? Solid body?

What mics are you wanting to buy or do you own? How much money do you have?

Which mic are you using now? Matching pre-amps with microphones can do a lot to create "your sound". Matching those with the right DAC (or hereafter called "Audio Interface or sound card") is the next step.

Using a Sony C-8 with the Great River Pre and a Sound Blaster sound card can be done; but it is kind of like driving a Ferrari to the grocery store.

Do you need or just want multi-track I/O's? Do you need or just want an analog sound from a digital device? Do you need or just want S/PDIF? Do you desire, need, or want USB, Firewire, or PCI connections to your computer? Are you going to have an outboard mixer? Etc., etc., etc.

How much money do you have?

Which DAW are you using or going to use?

I adore the Burl B52's but you may as well do away with the Great River if you go this route. The Apogee Quartet is nice. Focusrite's Scarlett 8i6 or 18i6 is nice and reasonably priced. So, how much money do you have?

Conclusion: Find an Audio Interface which works well for you and your studio, equipment setup, and needs. Do not settle for what someone else thinks or suggests - even me. Find out what works for you by doing your own legwork and testing in your own studio environment.

Oh, and how much money do you have?

Frank F
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heyguido
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, and how much money do you have?


And how much GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) do you have? Laugh
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FinMac
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject: Thanks Gents for the replies! Reply with quote

Hello Frank and Don and George,

Thanks for the replies and great questions.

What do I want? I want a good clean signal that will satisfy the clients. I mostly do corporate narration and sometimes from my home studio.

At the moment my "goto" mics are a Michael Joly Modified T-Bone mic, sort of like the U87 sound, and a Shure SM7B (for longer narrations).

Since doing a VO on a U47, I have dreamed about a warmer sounding mic. Have not liked how I sound on the U87, nor on the TM103. But the AKG C414 has been pretty good. But those have been in studios around Helsinki.

Today, God willing, I will receive a very interesting mic to test. It is the Lewitt 940. this mic is both a FET and a Tube and you can mix a blend of the two in whatever combination you want. the FET part (like the Lewitt lct 640) might sound like the C414 only warmer.

The main reason I am asking about the DACs is because I want to get rid of a noisy PC and get a Mac Mini. (this part is not G.A.S. for sure). So then I need the interface.

The "budget" is a good question. Do not want to spend more for the converter than the computer!

I am hoping to get the best "bang for the buck", as I hope to not spend more that 250 Euros on the interface, because I may need the software as well, and plug-ins. At the moment, with my PC, I am using AA 1.0 (old pc, old OS, old Antex LX-44 audio card). If I get something like the Alpha (Thanks George), then I would get TwistedWaves and some Voxengo plug-ins.

If I get the Presonus 22VSL then the software and effects come with it. The Propellorheads Balance looks good, but I might have to get the software and plug-ins in addition if the provided software isn't what I want.

Mostly I will be recording VO, and on occasion mixing it with music and effects, but that will be more rare. Will exclude the mixer if possible.

USB is good enough, though firewire is an option, as is S/PDIF, but I have not really thought through that issue too much.

So, in theory the chain will be, Lewitt lct 940, Great River (with RNC inserted), DAC to Mac Mini, with TwistedWaves and some Voxengo plug-ins (when needed).

After that I am done buying equipment. I hope that I do not have G.A.S., and if I do my wife will cure me of it!

(It is not so easy for me to get stuff here to Demo, and that is one big problem).

Thanks again.

Mac
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Frank F
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of us would like a Classic U47 Mac. Or even a Classic U87. I am not a fan of U87 AI in any designation. Although it can sound "passable" with the right Pre-amp and interface.

I suggest starting backward - begin at the end -- the editor, Have you used TW before? Can you get a copy to play with? Play with and learn the editors quirks BEFORE you get hooked on it..

Find a good interface, something simple which does not cost an arm, a leg, and a foot. For around $300.00 USD the Focusrite's Scarlett 8i6 or 18i6 is more interface than you need, but those extra I/O's are nice to have around. This is not my first choice, but bypassing the pre's could make either of these interfaces shine.

The Alpha would not be my second choice either, but getting a little "bang" is in this case about what you will get.

Add a small mixer and you should be set for quite a while. The only reason I suggest a mixer is it makes it easy to add more microphones, ISDN, Phone Patches, or other outboard audio devices into your chain. This is not a requirement, but is a good suggestion for future expansion.

Keep looking into microphones. I understand Telefunken now has a U47 clone for a great price. Make sure you get GREAT cables for everything - usually a bit pricy but worth it in the long run.

Clean sound is in the ear of the beholder - the client. Make sure your audio sounds great and you will have no worries.

Frank F
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graemespicer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a Focusrite 8i6. I use the line inputs only, but it's nice to know that if I was ever in a pinch that I have 2 Focusrite mic preamps available.

Also, even though I never thought I would need them, the extra inputs and outputs have been very helpful at various points in the past.

And, the Focusrite analog to digital conversion sounds great. Could you spend more (a lot more) on conversion? Sure. But I think I've got a pretty good ear, and I don't hear much difference between converters. Beau Weaver uses a Lexicon Alpha, and he gets plenty of work Smile
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now this thread has got me thinking about selling the Duet 2, and picking up a cheaper interface AND a mixer (since I have no playback for patch currently)
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if anyone has messed with the new Oktavamods. They are (on paper) very close vintage U47 alternatives. If I needed a mic, I'd try to at least test one out. They are cheap too.
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Frank F
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Oktavamods are NOT like a classic U47 in any way which matters. They are nice, but an entirely different mic in sound, color, body, clarity, etc.

I am going to play with an Atlantis soon, will tell you my thoughts after a ful on mic test.

Frank f
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mistake. He recently released a new mic that is (according to his graphing) close to identical to the U67 he owns. The capsule has the 47. My bad. Big difference there.
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heyguido
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the Duet2. Collect cans for the mixer. (see related thread). Wink
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Jason Huggins
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably a good plan. Mixers really aren't that expensive...well they can be.

On another note...how's the Balance working out for you? Is there a way to do patch with playback with that interface (without a mixer)?
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FinMac
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions Reply with quote

Thanks Gents for your input. I think that I will go the firewire route and the Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 has moved to the top of my list.

Has the same preamps, etc., as the 816 usb, and is also 25% cheaper as well.

Will free up one more usb port on the Mac Mini.

While testing the new Lewitt 940 mic found there was a problem in my old audio chain. Hope to have the new chain up and running by the end of the week.

All the best,

Mac
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