| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
melissa eX
MMD
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 2794
Location: Lower Manhattan, New Amsterdam, the original NYC
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
After 5 pages of this what amazes me is that so much time, thought and energy is going into trying to figure this out.
There's nothing to figure out.
I'm also on v123 and book a decent amount of work there. Though I tend to audition in spurts. I have no time for months and then I'll find myself with some time and I'll send in a bunch at once. I've also gotten Not Likely's and Will Not Be Considered's, right up there with Finalist's, Considering's and Maybe's. And I ONLY audition for things I think I'm right for.
Big deal. It means nothing.
Steven Lowell pointed this out in one of his posts. The "buckets" are simply there to aid a producer into narrowing down choices. That's it. Producers aren't providing a critique of your work. Who has time for that? They're not ranking you for YOUR benefit, nor are they ranking you on your overall skill. They're simply looking for the person who's right for THIS one job.
It's like going through your closet. Well, I guess women will relate better than men to this.
I'm looking for the perfect thing to wear to an event. I find a few things I like that could do but they don't knock me over the head. They go in the maybe/considering pile. But I keep looking for IT.
I find some other things, which I really like but they're wrong for this particular event, or maybe they're right but I've gained a pound or two and they don't fit me perfectly at the moment. When I go back to the gym maybe they will. But meanwhile I'm not going to consider the gorgeous sequinned evening gown even though it's perfect because it's sleeveless and THIS event happens to be an orthodox Jewish wedding - sleeveless would be in poor taste. Or it would be perfect if it weren't just a bit too tight, but I didn't know that until I had it on and looked in the mirror. I Wouldn't Consider them.
Ahhh!!! Finally! Here's something that would be perfect! But you know? Maybe there's another perfect or two in the bunch - because I'd really like to wear something with blue in it - etc. and the Finalist's then duke it out.
That's it. Whether it affects rankings or not - who knows - that doesn't matter either.
Audition. Forget about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Leslie Humble
Contributor IV
Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 145
Location: Cape Coral Fl
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well ...obviously the hot topic of the day. And the rankings do have a small impact as Stephen explained not long ago on this forum. But only a small impact.
But here's what strikes me: I hear complaint after complaint about V123. I regularly see members saying you're a bottom dweller even for using it. I see regularly people crying this is the main thing that's wrong with our industry today because V123 is what drives prices down. It allows pretenders and anyone with a snowball or USB mic to enter the VO ranks....on and on and on.
THEN: It looks like a HUGE majority of the main (read pros) members of this forum ARE MEMBERS. And spend every day worrying about their auditions there. Why if so many of you hate it do you belong? Please tell me I'm wrong and 90% here are not members of V123 or Voices?
I think they do a decent job for what they do. If it is the only part of your marketing mix then you are not where you should be. But for goodness sake if so many people hate it. QUIT USING IT.
I love you helpful guys and gals. Help me to understand.
_________________
There are rules to the Universe. Learn them and prosper. www.HumbleVoiceover.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rick Riley
Flight Attendant
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 807
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Melissa,
That may be the best analogy I've ever heard on the subject. Or ANY subject!
_________________
Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the Paramedics
www.rickrileyvoice.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
markt
Been Here Awhile
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 217
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I agree. Thanks Miss eX! Why didn't you use that story five pages ago?
_________________
"Dammit Jim, I'm a voice actor, not an audio engineer!"
Leonard McCoy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Philip Banks
Je Ne Sais Quoi
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 11081
Location: Portgordon, Scotland
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I treat all my auditions as pre-rejected and apply a strict non-submit policy. For certain non-potential clients I don't submit on a regular basis. On Voiceseekers.com they worry about this for 20-30 pages every 3 months. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lee Gordon
A Zillion
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 6865
Location: West Hartford, CT
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is no need for any further discussion, explanation, or clarification. Melissa's post is 100% spot-on. Well, except for the part about gaining a pound or two. She never does that.
_________________
Lee Gordon, O.A.V.
Voice President of the United States
www.leegordonproductions.com
Twitter: @LeeGordonVoice
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13023
Location: Camp Cooper
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Philip Banks wrote: | | I treat all my auditions as pre-rejected and apply a strict non-submit policy. |
Yep. That's the plan.
_________________
DBCooperVO.com
IMDB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Festus
Contributor
Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 34
Location: Stratford, Connecticut
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| markt wrote: | This whole subject is always a can of worms…
Mark |
If we put the can of worms in with the kettle of fish, would the issue of feedback and ranking resolve itself?
T-T-Th-Th-That was a joke, son.
_________________
http://www.seniorvoiceovers.com
e-mail: info@seniorvoiceovers.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bish
3.5 kHz
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 3738
Location: Lost in the cultural wasteland of Long Island
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Considering my penchant for jumping on to P2P discussions, I think I should be proud of my self control. However.... 
Two things.
1) Melissa is spot-on (she always is, but don't tell anyone I said so).
2) My January stats from V123 via both auditions and other contact: $1700. All the other stats don't amount to a hill o'beans. A totally meaningless distraction as the input data is fundamentally flawed.
_________________
Bish a.k.a. Bish
Smoke me a kipper... I'll be back for breakfast.
I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls... I will not feed the trolls. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
melissa eX
MMD
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 2794
Location: Lower Manhattan, New Amsterdam, the original NYC
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you. I could continue with the same analogy about going from Considering to Not be Considered to Finalist (you know - the little bolero with the 3/4 sleeves would be perfect with the sleeveless dress) but enough.
Lee - just 'cause you can't see the extra pounds doesn't mean they're not there - hah!
I didn't post 5 pages ago because I was too busy auditio........ KIDDING!
Seriously, tho' to address Leslie's post | Quote: |
But here's what strikes me: I hear complaint after complaint about V123. I regularly see members saying you're a bottom dweller even for using it. I see regularly people crying this is the main thing that's wrong with our industry today because V123 is what drives prices down. It allows pretenders and anyone with a snowball or USB mic to enter the VO ranks....on and on and on.
THEN: It looks like a HUGE majority of the main (read pros) members of this forum ARE MEMBERS. And spend every day worrying about their auditions there. Why if so many of you hate it do you belong? Please tell me I'm wrong and 90% here are not members of V123 or Voices? |
It drives rates down if you let it - and frankly it's here to stay so complaining won't do any good. I DO use it/them but in a way that makes sense to me. I only audition for things that pay well enough to convert to union - which means they pay at least 30% above scale. I'm sure many if not most of the people here do the same whether they convert or not.
There's good work to be had there at times. I've posted here before about the national SAG spot I booked last year on v123, that I'm still getting residuals checks for.
As for Voices.com I only audition when I'm invited. I can't be bothered with trying to jump on an audition as soon as it comes out - which is why I like the v123 SmartCast system. However when I am invited I may audition depending on what it is and the rate. One thing to keep in mind on Voices. I think the $100-$250 category is the default category if one doesn't choose a category. Not long ago I auditioned there for a private invitation posted in that category after checking out the company because it seemed they were a quality company. I ignored the $100-250 and sent it in with a rate of $550. They hired me at that rate - and paid SurePay on top of that. I've also been contacted directly by people who are now steady clients - one of whom in fact - I get work from about twice a week.
The argument exists, yes, that the p2p's are driving prices down. But if not them something else will. The fact is we now live in a global economy and just as major corporations are outsourcing to India and the Philippines and Romania - (yes I got a CSA the other day in Romania) to keep costs down we see the same happening in our industry. We can't stand in the way of technological advances just because they've changed the way things were. We have to adapt to the way things are. And it's not all bad. Technology has opened up work for us that didn't exist not that far back. E-learning, web videos etc. There's so much more work there just as there's more talent looking for the work. But it's up to US whether the driving down of rates will affect each of us personally or not. If we choose to battle it out for $100 jobs then we've chosen to keep company with those for whom price is the main and maybe only consideration. If we choose to keep company with those at the top of their game who respect the profession our results can look very different. Same technology, same sites. Drastically different results.
Adapt. Make it work for you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott Pollak
The Gates of Troy
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1903
Location: Looking out at the San Juan mountains
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Melissa, honestly, this may be the single most on-target, insightful, objective and well-said v/o posting I've just about ever read. On any v/o forum.
Thank you for saying this. And kudos on saying it so well.
_________________
Scott R. Pollak
Clients include Pandora, NPR Atlanta, Wells Fargo, Cisco, Humana, Publix, UPS, AT&T, HP, Xerox and more.
www.voicebyscott.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
markt
Been Here Awhile
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 217
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You beat me to it Scott. Incredibly astute and inspirational.
Thanks again, Miss eX.
_________________
"Dammit Jim, I'm a voice actor, not an audio engineer!"
Leonard McCoy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deirdre
Czarina Emeritus
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 13023
Location: Camp Cooper
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott Pollak wrote: | | On any v/o forum. |
There's another VO Forum?
_________________
DBCooperVO.com
IMDB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lance Blair
M&M
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 2281
Location: Atlanta
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
One thing I don't understand about the P2P model from a producers point of view is the amount of time wasted going through the selection process. I understand that for commercial work, they could be saving a lot of money by going this route (but will they really have a high number of excellent auditions?) However, for corporate work it makes little sense - you might be saving $2-400 if you find a good voice that bids low, but then you've spent at least an hour of billable time picking out the voice...unless you have the intern pick the ten best (a-ha!) and then sit down and listen to five in thirty second and say "I'm good...let's go with that third one, the one that hit our name right".
I'm sure that interns and engineers have absolutely nothing to do with any layer of the decision process. That couldn't be possible, could it? Whoddathunkit? 
That's the other thing...the people making the 'ratings' are not necessarily the same people that are making the final decision.
_________________
Skype: globalvoiceover
and now, http://lanceblairvo.com the blog is there now too! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
todd ellis
A Zillion
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 10531
Location: little egypt
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
good point lance. in 2012 i had not one but two clients contact me saying "finding the right voice is a pain in the ass - can YOU do it for me?" so, i said, sure. it's opened a whole new "division" of my business, and as it turns out ... i like it. so, there you have two voice "seekers" fishing in a much smaller pond for bigger fish.
_________________
"i know philip banks": todd ellis
who's/on/1st?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
